Water Chemistry Gurus

[manticle]

Calcium for yeast health and enzyme activity.

I should have added 'AND to drop mash pH' .

Manticle,
does this mean you simply heat your mash water from tap temps to strike temps and are confident the chlorines are driven off in this time?..

Yep.

Measured purely by taste in finished beer but as I said - I have tasted chlorephenols in beer before so if that band aid shit isn't there, I'm happy enough with my process.

 

[Nick JD]

Thanks for all the help fellas! So I got the numbers (all mg/L).

Bicarb 43
Chloride 22
Sulphate 10
Calcium 16
Magnesium 1.8
Zinc 0.04
Sodium 14
pH 7.5

What would I need to add to get my water "right"; and what would I add to tweak it for hoppy ales vs smooth lagers? I don't really make dark (roasty) beers.

I'm thinking some CaCl? Or CaSo4? Is 7.5 cool? My mash pH is in the "good" range when I test it (only tested it for decocting).

Gold coast has some pretty good brewing water, no?

 

[Nick JD]

I just bunged my numbers into that Liquor Treatment Calculator and it reckons I add (mg/L):

241 Calcium Sulphate
102 Calcium Chloride
83 Magnesium Sulphate
15 Sodium Chloride

...for "general purpose". Does this sound about right?

For Lagers

59
45
2
0

Am I on the right track?

 

[seamad]

For a 20 litre batch I would add between 6-10g total of CaCl and Ca SO4.
For pils probably @7g CaCl and super hoppy ale maybe 2.5g CaCl and 5g CaSO4. Imbetween beers 50/50 . Not a big lager maker myself,but for hefe/wit etc just the CaCl. Most apa's are 50:50 sometimes with some epsom salts ( 2.5g)in an english bitter, ipa ususally 1:2 Cl:SO4 ratio.

Having said that monitor pH for a bit with your additions too see where you are going.
cheers
sean

 

[Nick JD]

It says I need roughly a gram each of CaCl and CaSo4 for a lager for my batch size. Dunno if it's worth bothering there, although it seems reckons Ca is pretty useful when the water is deficient of it.

"General Purpose" - which is probably my PAs, I reckon 4g CaSo4, 2g CaCl, 1.5g MgSo4

 

[seamad]

What size are your batches ?

 

[Nick JD]

What size are your batches ?

Generally 17L. I plugged my numbers into this:

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water/water.html

 

[seamad]

Looks like a good calculator, i tend to use the one on bs2 .

From a chemistry point of view i aim for between 100-150 ppm Ca which pretty well covers the various Ca requirements in the brewing process.

Adjust the Cl:SO4 ratio to suit malty: hoppy.

My personal preference for most pa is equal ratio, probably a good starting point then play around with it to suit your tastes.

Off the top of my head, and ive had a couple of brews already, is a normal mash will produce @18 ppm Ca itself, so you already have 34 ppm with your water.
Cheers
Sean

 

[drsmurto]

Thanks for all the help fellas! So I got the numbers (all mg/L).

Bicarb 43
Chloride 22
Sulphate 10
Calcium 16
Magnesium 1.8
Zinc 0.04
Sodium 14
pH 7.5

What would I need to add to get my water "right"; and what would I add to tweak it for hoppy ales vs smooth lagers? I don't really make dark (roasty) beers.

I'm thinking some CaCl? Or CaSo4? Is 7.5 cool? My mash pH is in the "good" range when I test it (only tested it for decocting).

Gold coast has some pretty good brewing water, no?

For a 20 litre batch I would add between 6-10g total of CaCl and Ca SO4.
For pils probably @7g CaCl and super hoppy ale maybe 2.5g CaCl and 5g CaSO4. Imbetween beers 50/50 . Not a big lager maker myself,but for hefe/wit etc just the CaCl. Most apa's are 50:50 sometimes with some epsom salts ( 2.5g)in an english bitter, ipa ususally 1:2 Cl:SO4 ratio.

Having said that monitor pH for a bit with your additions too see where you are going.
cheers
sean

It says I need roughly a gram each of CaCl and CaSo4 for a lager for my batch size. Dunno if it's worth bothering there, although it seems reckons Ca is pretty useful when the water is deficient of it.

"General Purpose" - which is probably my PAs, I reckon 4g CaSo4, 2g CaCl, 1.5g MgSo4

The first one to produce CaCl gets a nomination for a Nobel Prize.

 

[Nick JD]

The first one to produce CaCl gets a nomination for a Nobel Prize.

Care to help - or are you only here to show everyone you're brainy with year 9 chemistry? Even I can remember that Ca has two plusses and Cl only one minus. I just didn't think anyone would be a big enough arse to care about my missing "2". Seems I was wrong.

 

[MHB]

Maybe not so much care as know that its really important to get the basics right.
M

 

[seamad]

and that i have a science degree too, the shame the shame, best go top myself now.

 

[drsmurto]

Water chemistry requires attention to detail.

Given you know it should be CaCl2 (plus how ever many water molecules your particular sample contains) but write it as CaCl demonstrates your lack of attention to detail.

I don't see it as my job to educate you Nick, given you can read and write you have all that is required to do the research yourself.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Water chemistry requires attention to detail.

Given you know it should be CaCl2 (plus how ever many water molecules your particular sample contains) but write it as CaCl demonstrates your lack of attention to detail.

I don't see it as my job to educate you Nick, given you can read and write you have all that is required to do the research yourself.

If only we had a name like epsum or gypsum for it, these arguments would not happen

Lets name it "crapsum"

 

[kymba]

If only we had a name like epsum or gypsum for it, these arguments would not happen

Lets name it "crapsum"

i think "santorum" would be more fitting

 

[Fish13]

off topic from Nickjd's orginal post but i cant make pale ale beers very well. Make them dark, amber onwards, and its fine.

the flavour is nice but then this overpowering "sort of sweetness". I know the bunbury water has alot of calicum carbonate in it and i have a very white element in my urns...

To try o solve this should i pre boil the water in the urns and then brew the next day?

Boil the water in the urn and then transfer to a fermentor placed in the fridge to clean the urn of the CaCO3?


I was trying additions of gypsum at the boil to improve the hop pronounceness but have given that up after my last pales.

 

[Nick JD]

Collect rainwater.

 

[manticle]

Fish - temporary hardness (relating to bicarbonte content) can be removed by boiling and allowing precipitation. Permanent hardness (relating to sulphate content) needs treatment with slaked lime or removal by RO water filter.
Pretty sure gryphon brewing is au fait with mash and water chem so see if you can get his advice on the best approach with WA water.

 

[Nick JD]

Most importantly though, whatever you do, remember to pay attention to detail - this is most important - leaving a "2" off the end of a salt will incur the Wrath of the Geeks.

Remember, it's not their job to educate you, it's their job to point out your mistakes.

 

[bum]

It is the same thing when you're wrong, Nick.