Waht Makes A Beer A Certain Style

[davelovesbeer]

After looking through some recipes the other day, I noticed that a recipe that a recipe with the same grain bill, and hops was in 2 different styles of beer. The only difference was the yeast used. So that got me thinking, is it the yeast that mainly decides what the style of beer is? I realise that color, or certain grains define a beer, as sometimes the hops used do, but these recipes were almost identical..

So that brings me to my next question, how much influence does the type of yeast used have. Is a London ale yeast much different to a British ale yeast, and how much different are these to a Safale yeast. I have only used the dry yeasts so have not tasted all the different types. And if you use say a Saflager yeast instead of a Safale yeast in the same wort, how different will it be?

Just wondering how people distinguish between say a pale ale and a kolsch if they are just using regular dried yeast.

 

[~MikE]

you wont fully see the difference the yeast makes until you use liquid yeasts. have you ever tried re-culturing cooper's yeast? cos that should give you an idea. but yeah, yeast makes an absolute crap load of difference.

 

[Stuster]

Grains, hops, yeast - all make a huge difference to the taste of a beer. You certainly could have the same recipe but different yeast and have different beers.

There's overlap between styles and it might not be clear which it fits better. A beer slap in the middle of two styles might taste different, but then there are beers between these which you could call one or the other. There are also beers which don't really fall into any particular style (or the brewer wasn't thinking of one when they made the beer). When entering a beer like that into the database, the brewer might just have picked one, another brewer of a similar beer picked another.

 

[Swinging Beef]

Just wondering how people distinguish between say a pale ale and a kolsch if they are just using regular dried yeast.

They dont!
Thats why we all rant on about $10 wyeast from Craftbrewer.
A good yeast for Belgians, Weizen, English Ale and German Alt or Kolsch makes all the difference.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Certainly the big difference with yeasts is the whole Ale/Lager yeast thing, though changing the yeast makes a difference- recently I made a honey wheat using a wheat beer yeast, and ironically it tasted not as good as when I used the American Ale yeast.

 

[white.grant]

You gotta remember that styles as we know them now, were historically the products of regional produce and local conditions. We're reaping the benefits now of mass transit, and globalism that brings the styles to us and us to the styles (if we're lucky enough), and or the ingredients that help define the styles.

Back in the day, you'd make beer out of what fermentables and yeasts you had to hand, and before you'd know it you had a style! It's what would be served at your local pub, or cafe or brauhaus. Styles are often defined culturally as well as geographically. Often beer styles will be prefaced by a geographical location - North German Altbier, Bavarian Weizen, Chiswick Bitter, Belgian Blonde, India Pale Ale (though that's another story).

Styles developed for a reason and that's one of the fascinating things about beer, the diversity and ingenuity of brewers is truly amazing. You should have a look at the Michael Jackson Beer Hunter series.

cheers

grant

 

[Effect]

Styles developed for a reason and that's one of the fascinating things about beer, the diversity and ingenuity of brewers is truly amazing. You should have a look at the Michael Jackson Beer Hunter series.

they write books about beer now???

will have to have a read

 

[matti]

they write books about beer now???

will have to have a read

hehe.

You can also produce different beers by brewing at different temperature with same yeast and pitching it at different rates.
Go the yeasty beasty

 

[buttersd70]

hehe.

You can also produce different beers by brewing at different temperature with same yeast and pitching it at different rates.
Go the yeasty beasty

agree 100%. Its often said that ales are best brewed at about 18C ish. This is a generalisation, of course, and when you're not entirely familiar with what a particular yeast does at temperature, it's best to stick to that.....but, if you know your yeast, and you know the flavour profiles it will produce at different temperatures or pitching rates, you can really push some different characteristics in there, and when that is combined with appropriate grain bills and hopping schedules, you can come up with a very different beer to what that yeast will usually do.

 

[smudge]

I reckon that first it's the yeast. Then it's the hops, then it's grain bill (recipe), fermentation temp, water and whatever else.

I really don't think that you can make a true Kolsch with dry yeast. You might make a spectacular beer....just not a Kolsch

But that assumes you want to make a Kolsch rather than a beer you would like to drink

My last Kolsch slurry (2565???) was pitched into a Kolsch grain bill with all Amarillo...and I loved it.

Cheers,
smudge

 

[Effect]

how about water profile?

 

[haysie]

how about water profile?

yeah maybe phil, before all that ditto what smudge said, grain bill, hops, yeast, when and if you get it right check out the water, recommened a lure

sheesh, i went for speeeling again

 

[buttersd70]

agree with smudge, with a "but". For me, the position of importance of the grain bill and the hops interchanges, or sometimes has equal weight, depending on what is being brewed. Brewing to me is about balance, and offsetting the balance of one thing against another, depending on the results required.

Is water important? again it's a yes and a no. Yes, in as much as it needs to be suitable for what you are brewing, and no in as much as some people get too concerned about it being super exact. The codified styles that we have today (as in the BJCP guidlines), are guidelines, not definitave scripture set in stone. Many of the styles vary greatly due to regionality in their countries of origin, due both to different ingredient availability, and the local water source (as well as method, and several other factors). So to use English Best Bitter as an example, many people get hung up on trying to 'Burtonise' their water...but the water in Yorkshire, for example, is very different than that in Burton on Trent. Yet they also produce Best Bitter. And yes, the results can be quite different, as are the results of Bitters brewed 2 towns away. But is it better, or worse? Or neither? Both water sources are suitable for the general 'style', as is the water in many other parts of the world.

I usually don't bother with changing my water for this style (even though I understand how to), other than perhaps a minor adjustment to optimise the water, particularly in relation to the mash pH. However, over the course of the next few months, I will be brewing a Bitter and a Mild, both with fully modified water. Not because I believe it needs it, per se, for the general style, but because I want to replicate a type of beer within the style, from a specific region. (ie, West Riding). But the most important part of that is the yeast.

So don't get too hung up on water, particularly being in Adelaide, as the water here is suitable for a fairly wide range of styles anyway, with little or no modification.

Just my 2c.

 

[matti]

Brewing can be very bewildering for many but curiosity never killed the cat on the dark side.
Philip.
Have read of John Palmers on line version or by the book.
Another good read is Gregory Noonans.
Have a scroll through the links on this site as well

There is little doubt that you initial post about a similar recipe making making it for two types of categories of beer just the yeast and the temperature fermented at can make two different types of beers.
Water can to a certain degree change the taste of it but not so much to change style.
Most breweries adjust their water to suit to what they are trying to create.

I brew APA with Sydney water with out adjustment but brew English beer with a slight addition of Gypsum and often with oats in the grain bill.

Lager I try to stay true to Sydney water but adjust the pH with acidulated malt and I also adjust the sparge liqour with citric acid.

I only do all this aspect of brewing to reach better conversions.

Thers seem to be 3 types of people that brew beer.
Scientist, the mechanical gifted and drunks....
Also the fourth version that is very rear All of the above. That person have the potential to become a brew master.
signing off ZZZZZZZZZZZ
matti

 

[Bizier]

If you brew 2 identical beers with 2 different yeasts, you will instantly see the difference. I did this a few months ago when I was learning some basic parts to the puzzle. I did a double English ale, one using Windsor, and one Nottingham, entirely different beers, and that is only basic dried yeast.

The other ingredient is Temperature and how it is used re: Pale VS Kolsch

 

[PostModern]

Thers seem to be 3 types of people that brew beer.
Scientist, the mechanical gifted and drunks....
Also the fourth version that is very rear All of the above. That person have the potential to become a brew master.
signing off ZZZZZZZZZZZ
matti

Don't forget the cooks. A handful of this, a bucket of that....

But on styles, I think the colour, strength and bitterness steer beer towards a style as much as, if not more than the yeast. A RIS grain bill will not make a Dortmunder no matter what yeast you use.