Vitbeer - Newbie

[pberrett]

Hi all

This is my first post here so please be gentle (yes I have read the faq).

I have not brewed beer before but seeing as a previous owner of the house I own had the good sense to pull out many of my stumps and use copious amounts of concrete to make a very even temperatured cellar I think I am in a good position to have a go at it.

However rather than go the usual route of brewing a well known local beer I'd like to try and brew some witbeer. I study Dutch and in the course of my studies a friend gave me some to sample. It is textured like a beer but in many ways is like champagne.

So can I purchase a kit to make witbeer or do I need to get a basic brewing kit and just use a different recipe?

Will my cellar come in handy? It stays quite cool in summer but is cold in winter.

Also I live in Boronia in the outer east of Melbourne. Any recommendations for a specialist shop to get my materials or should I just head for Bigw?

cheers Peter

 

[Silo Ted]

Hi Peter and welcome to the hobby.

There are a few ways to go when starting out. Most take the first steps with kits, which are the cans in the supermarket - although they wont sell wheat beer. These have all the malt already hopped and you just add the extras, like sugar, another can (called a toucan), some dextrose or some dry malt.

The other option is to get your hands on some unhopped malt, either dry or liquid, and you add the hops yourself. This is a much better option, and not so hard to do. The extra customisation of your beers for little extra effort is worth it

And then there's all grain, or AG, where you convert all the sugars from malted grain yourself, add your hops etc. This is the most rewarding, flavour wise, because you're doing what the breweries do, just on a smaller scale. Many people who start out feel quite daunted about going to AG, but once they get there they say 'hey that was easier than I thought'. WIth some pioneering efforts from aussie brewers in redefining the methods, and introducing "Brew In A Bag" to the world, it makes it easier still. Plenty of information here to get you thinking.

Just a word on wheat (wit) beers. A lot of the magic is in the yeast strain. Check out the products from Wyeast & White Lbs, there are a few to choose from.

 

[Silo Ted]

Some excellent posts on BIAB can be found here:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...t=0&start=0

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...t=0&start=0

 

[J Grimmer]

Sounds great, id find a good Home brew shop in your neck of the woods and start their they will have plenty of kits and bits their to experiment with and a decent one will help push you along to making better beer, may be a a local to Baronia could point you in the right direction of a decent HBS regardless their is plenty of info and and help available in the forum and the sponsors at the top of the page are great too.

In relation to your cellar it sounds great i do somethng simmilar at my bros house and you would be surprised what a differnce a consistant temp make when making beer. Good luck on you r brewing adventures.

 

[Eggs]

brewers den is on dorset road in the middle of boronia. same side as the police station. next to the fishing shop.

 

[pberrett]

Hi all

Thanks for your help

I headed off to Brewer's Den yesterday and the staff member Peter helped me out. I have bought a full brewing kit including heater along with a tin of the mixture for Hoehaarden and some used bottles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoegaarden_Beer

Let the Belgian brewing begin!

cheers Peter

ps I hope my bottles don't explode!

 

[pberrett]

Well I've brewed my first batch!

As I look over to the left of my computer my plastic keg sits silently save for the occasional gloop as gas escapes out the valve.

I measured the specific gravity and got a reading of 1.065. This surprised me because I had read that beer is usually around 1.040. But this is Witbeer so that may explain why the reading is different.

The gloops are fairly frequent and this is no doubt helped by the heater I am using which came with the kit.

cheers Peter

 

[Yob]

Well I've brewed my first batch!

As I look over to the left of my computer my plastic keg sits silently save for the occasional gloop as gas escapes out the valve.

I measured the specific gravity and got a reading of 1.065. This surprised me because I had read that beer is usually around 1.040. But this is Witbeer so that may explain why the reading is different.

The gloops are fairly frequent and this is no doubt helped by the heater I am using which came with the kit.

cheers Peter

few things here mate... Your reading may not be altogether right, sometimes when its all mixed in a bit of "concentrated" wort can sit in the tap an dif you dont run off enough to clear it, it will give you a highter reading than it otherwise would..

pay no attention to the 'gloop' as it means little to nothing and alot of people, me included, do not use them at all... trust your hydrometer.. Personally I would take another reading but it may not matter at this point.. take one in 4 days time and get a kick out of it being 1.012-14 :lol:

(assuming normal Kit additives)

 

[Silo Ted]

Just go easy on the heating, while a lot of wits can be fermented slightly higher, you still don't want to overdo it. Not sure what the weather's like in your neck of the woods, but Im surprised to hear the use of a heatbelt in summer.

Post your recipe ingredients list and batch size, and I or someone else can do the calculations and tell you what to expect gravity wise. 1.065 is higher than a standard kit, but not uncommon for beers in general. Depends what you added.

 

[pberrett]

I actually did 2 readings. The 1.065 reading was the second, done some time after the first.

The reason for the heater is that my brewing is being done in a concreted cellar under my house which stays very cool.

The ingredients were

- Can of Hoegaarden extract
- 1 kg of Beer improver)

http://www.thebrewersden.com.au/?stg=199&view=199

- yeast which came with the above can

Actually I misread the gauge. It should have been 1.060 (where green color starts on my gauge). I just took another reading and it has dropped back to 1.58.

cheers Peter

 

[pberrett]

Its been two days now and the bubbling on my brew has slowed considerably - maybe one blub per minute now.

However I have a concern. I looked at my stick on thermometer and it appears to be showing 34 degrees which I think is too hot (this part of the thermometer has turned blue).

The keg is about 2/3 full (21 litres) and the thermometer runs higher than the level of the brew. The level of the brew is at about the 30 degree mark with higher temperatures above the level of the brew.

The top of the brew feels relatively hot but the bottom feels much less warm - even tepid.

I have turned off my heater (the heater is inside the brew).

I just checked my specific gravity and it has dropped from its starting measurement of 1.060 to 1.020.

I had a sniff. It smells nice and fruity and like a nice sweet beer.

Will my brew be ok?

cheers Peter

 

[pberrett]

Hmmm no replies?

I turned off my heater and the brew went cold and the bubbling stopped. I have since restarted the heater and the brew has begun to bubble again and a bit more often too (4 times per minute) so I guess it is brewing ok.

 

[manticle]

Hi mate.

Firstly what is the actual ambient temperature in your cellar? It sounds as if you are definitely brewing too hot. 34 degrees is too hot, even for some of the crazy type saison yeasts. Brew will still ferment but you may get headache causing fusel alcohols and other nastiness.

Various yeasts work best within various temp ranges but as a general rule (and certainly as a beginner) you should keep top fermenting ale yeasts between 16 and 22. Best results will be 18 -20. This is especially important during the first few days of ferment.

Bottom fermenting lager yeasts are usually better around 7-13. There are exceptions to the above but no point complicating things too much.

Second - I'd be super surprised if the OG was above 1060. Can you tell me how you are using the hydrometer? (whole process). What matters most now is the stability of your fininshing gravity but good to work out for next time.

Thirdly - please pay no attention to the airlock except as a maker of nice sounds. The bubbles are carbon dioxide coming out of solution which can still happen when the beer has finished fermenting and the airlock can provide no sign if the lid is not completely sealed etc, leading you to worry that the brew is not fermenting when it is.

Read up here on fermentation temperatures and airlocks bubbling - plenty of info around.

Also some good ideas for witbeer - even the more complicated, all grain ones can be translated into kit and extract. Find one you look and ask how.

Third

 

[pberrett]

Hi mate.

Firstly what is the actual ambient temperature in your cellar? It sounds as if you are definitely brewing too hot. 34 degrees is too hot, even for some of the crazy type saison yeasts. Brew will still ferment but you may get headache causing fusel alcohols and other nastiness.

Various yeasts work best within various temp ranges but as a general rule (and certainly as a beginner) you should keep top fermenting ale yeasts between 16 and 22. Best results will be 18 -20. This is especially important during the first few days of ferment.

Bottom fermenting lager yeasts are usually better around 7-13. There are exceptions to the above but no point complicating things too much.

Second - I'd be super surprised if the OG was above 1060. Can you tell me how you are using the hydrometer? (whole process). What matters most now is the stability of your fininshing gravity but good to work out for next time.

Thirdly - please pay no attention to the airlock except as a maker of nice sounds. The bubbles are carbon dioxide coming out of solution which can still happen when the beer has finished fermenting and the airlock can provide no sign if the lid is not completely sealed etc, leading you to worry that the brew is not fermenting when it is.

Read up here on fermentation temperatures and airlocks bubbling - plenty of info around.

Also some good ideas for witbeer - even the more complicated, all grain ones can be translated into kit and extract. Find one you look and ask how.

Third

Thanks

My cellar is generally about 10-20 degrees at the moment depending on whether its night or day.

The stick on thermometer is showing 36 at the moment but the temperature is not even across the fermenter. The bottom is quite cool and is much warmer at the top of the liquid. My 21 liters of brew fills the plastic fermenter about 2/3 with the stick on thermometer rising about 1/3 above the brew.

I just took another hyrdrometer reading and it is now sitting at 1015 so the fermentation is continuing. I fill my hydrometer up until the temperature gauge has started to float, twirl it and then look at it side on with the temperature gauge in the centre of the liquid. The level of the liquid was originally 1060 (before adding yeast)- it is now 1015.

I also smelt the hydrometer sample. It smells quite fruity and doesn't smell off. I must stress that since starting the brew I have not opened the fermenter at all so there has been no contamination.

The higher OG reading may be due to the fact that this is wheat beer (Hoegaarden)?

I am wondering when to start bottling. I brewed on Sunday so maybe next Sunday is bottling day? Also once bottled how long before the bottled brew will be sufficiently carbonated?

cheers Peter

 

[manticle]

1060+ is far higher than I'd expect for Hoegaarden (unless it's grand cru). I'd expect something between 1040 and 1050 to properly replicate HG.

Can you tell me, step by step, the process you are following to measure the gravity? It may seem dumb but believe me, people have got readings that were out of whack, only to work out they were putting the hydrometer in upside down. When you are new, nothing is dumb except a resistance to learning. The same can be said for people who are not new as well.

Taste that hydrometer sample - don't just smell it.

If I were you, I would ferment brews without any extra heat. Once the brew starts it actually produces its own heat which it will hold while active (most important time anyway for consistent temps). Simply place a blanket or doona around it and let it do its thing. Place some ice bricks in there if you want to do a proper lager (or just brew them in the winter). I wish I had a cellar. Your heater is quite possibly redundant and I would certainly not be using it for your next brew n summer. Freezing cold winter maybe but not if it pushes to 36 degrees.

Also check out Greensborough Homebrewing in greensborough. It has a very good reputation: http://www.greensboroughhomebrew.com.au
Fruitness to a degree is welcome in a hoegaarden but fruity beers can also be a result of overly high ferment temps.

As for bottling - you need to go by stable hydrometer readings (ie readings that remain the same for around 2-3 days) COMBINED WITH those readings being within an expected range. If you are not sure of that range,, ask the shop. If they can't tell you, don't shop there again.

You can't bottle according to 'sunday to sunday' or numbers of bubbles per minute etc. The beer will not get worse if you leave it a few extra days after it's finished - if anything it will probably improve.

Carbonation depends on many things but rule of thumb is wait two weeks, then test one.

Are you intending to bottle in glass?

 

[pberrett]

Ok Ill go through this step by step

At the beginning I added my good with some hot water and then cold water on top of that. Then added my brewing sugar (1kg) which came with my kit from Brewers Den in Boronia and stirred vigorously.

I then drew out some liquid using the tap into the glass vial that my hydrometer goes into and filled till it was floating. I twirled it and then carefully looked at it side on to get the level. I also took a second reading the same way. Both times came out 1060.

I then sealed the 21 litres of liquid with the heater set at 22 degrees inside. The s shaped plastic seal was then filled with water and fitted to the top of the fermenter.

The fermenter has not been opened since.

I took another reading the same way couple of days ago and it was 1040. The brew tasted strongly alcoholic but not carbonated and quite fruity, something I like.

Yesterday was 1020 and today I took a measurement the same way and again it was 1015.

I intend to buy some PET bottles from Safeway and bottle into those using the sugar drops supplied with my kit.

cheers Peter

 

[pberrett]

I just tasted the beer. It is a little strange to drink warm beer.

It is noticably alcoholic with a typical beer 'bite' aftertaste. It has a little head and a fruity roundness.

 

[Silo Ted]

Manticle, I looked at the site he mentioned, and the hoe kit cost $30+ so its probably 3kg of LME. Along with the adjuncts it probably does come in at around that OG.

@ the Op, it was mentioned earlier, that you really dont need a heatbelt in summer. Your beer will still be drinkable, but if its a wheat yeast then god only knows what sort of flavours it will throw off. Not to worry, put it down to experience, and do another one. We all start out doing some things that arent the best but thats what the forum is here for.

 

[manticle]

If it was one of the ESB 3 kg tins then that gravity is not ridiculous (although I would have thought unnecessary for cloning HG).

PBerret - All sounds OK except next time, discard or drink the first part of the sample. A second reading of the same sample won't help. Malt etc can sometimes not mix properly and will give a higher than expected reading due to being close to the tap.

Either way, your brew is obviously fermenting healthily. When it remains at a stable point for 3 days you should be OK to bottle. Brews can stall but you having already hit 1015 with that amount of fermentables suggests to me you are getting close to FG. A few extra days left past that though will probably help the brew - no rush.

Hope it turns out well but next time please take advantage of your nice cool cellar and skip the heater.

By the way - from quick glance, Brewer's den looks like an OK kind of place so make sure you ask for good advice on fermentation temperature. You should be able to ask all sorts of beginner questions and get patient, sensible well explained advice.

 

[pberrett]

Thanks

The chap there sems pretty helpful and passionate about brewing.

cheers Peter