vale Malcom Fraser

[manticle]

Do you really believe all that shite about budgets? Our debt level is extremely low and surpluses and deficits have been produced reasonably equally historically by both sides of government. We're not talking about having enough at the end of the week for a litre of milk. The reduction of political and social debate in this country to budget balancing makes me cry.

 

[goomboogo]

Every spending cut put forward is being blocked by Labour who has no ideas or plans of their own, we are borrowing $110 million every day, and as Glen Stevens said in Brisbane yesterday,we have to tackle the problem now or it will be harder medicine to swallow down the track.

In a country with a fiat currency, deficit spending is not funded through external borrowings. This is one of the great myths foisted upon the public by politicians and the majority of economists. The realities of accounting at the Federal level are seemingly lost on our so-called leaders. I say seemingly because in some cases it's a lack of knowledge whilst for other people it masks ulterior motives.

 

[Bribie G]

As they say never discuss religion or politics, but if the budget is to be fixed by cuts to pensions and throwing young unemployed people onto the streets for six months of the year then thank god for the Senate.

They have already gutted science in Australia. When rich superannuants are no longer subsidised by the pensioners billions are no longer handed out to property investors and companies pay Their fair rate of tax instead of offshoring their profits then I'll be convinced that cuts are warranted.

I'm actually surprised that, having revealed your own health struggle you are impressed by a party that is dead set on destroying Medicare.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I don't know about having a leader who is uncompromising, but our leader at the moment is having to make compromises, which doesn't help our country, we are looking towards a bleak future unless the budget can be fixed which is what this coalition government was voted in to do. What would Malcom do if he was at the crease now, unfortunately all I know about him is what I wrote in an essay on the great man while at school.
Every spending cut put forward is being blocked by Labour who has no ideas or plans of their own, we are borrowing $110 million every day, and as Glen Stevens said in Brisbane yesterday,we have to tackle the problem now or it will be harder medicine to swallow down the track.

I am gathering that you read a lot of Murdoch papers.


But its probably all Labors fault that you have to read them

 

[Linford]

The man saved the whales, and that is a massive tick for me. Ahead of his time unlike the Fark wits allowing the super trawlers. RIP.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

True it isn't all foreign money which is borrowed, not by the government main borrowings is through CGS which isn't good for the private sector, and I am a firm believer that debt should at least be kept under control.
How far can the governments income from taxes be stretched, of course this government doesn't want to see the demise of medicare they just want to be able to collect money to keep it going, something will have to give whether it be pensions or unemployment benefits sooner that than health care or education.

As for my health issues I don't have to rely on medicare most of that tab is picked up by medibank and if I did have to rely solely on medicare I would be in dire straits having to wait sometimes months for scans instead of a few days, chemotherapy for someone on medicare is an all day job not over and done within 3.5 hours as it is when covered privately.
People have got to learn to finance themselves, I realise superannuation hasn't been going long enough for the pensioners coming through at the moment but hey they could have been making co contributions and I wonder how many have.

As for the newspapers Murdoch owns 70% of the Australian newspapers according to Kevin Dud so the chances are I would read one of Murdoch's rags

 

[Bribie G]

Friend of mine just had a major liver resection for cancer, had a world class operation with scans done promptly, top NSW surgical team and excellent outcome. As she is entitled to, solely reliant on MeciCARE.
Glad to hear in your case that the perceived two tier medical system is paying off for you and I wish you well.

 

[goomboogo]

How far can the governments income from taxes be stretched, of course this government doesn't want to see the demise of medicare they just want to be able to collect money to keep it going, something will have to give whether it be pensions or unemployment benefits sooner that than health care or education.

Federal Government spending isn't funded by taxation revenues in the same way deficit spending isn't funded by borrowing. Our federal government doesn't have the same spending constraints as a household or private business. The accounting is completely different. This is why any comparison between the federal budget and household budgets is spurious.

 

[Bribie G]

Another thing that really pisses me off is smug people in employment who classify themselves as "taxpayers". They are, single handedly, supporting all those leeches who are sucking off their backs, benefiting from their hard work and the income tax they pay.

I'm a pensioner and it's well documented that I actually part with more of my income in tax, by percentage, than the average person on 70k a year.

Petrol excise is a tax. Stamp duty is a tax. Rates are a tax. Grog excise is a tax, road tolls are a tax, GST is a tax, (surprise surprise the T in GST stands for tax), the list is endless.

erm, could this thread be perhaps wandering a bit OT?

 

[madpierre06]

Interesting re: the man himself....I'm not sure why but I have always voted Labor bar two times....the first when Keating was ousted, and the second when Bligh was the victim of the bloodbath in Qld. Both times it was an anti Labor vote rather than pro the other mob due to what I saw at the time was flagrant arrogance, dishonesty, and complete disdain for we as citizens who are actually the foundation of this country. Maybe I went Labor due to my very first recognisance of an Australian political event which was the drunken bum giving Gough's mob the flick, something which I do recall at the time just didn't seem right to me, regardless of how well or not Australia was being governed (something of which I had no understanding of at all). And I have always had very strong thoughts about things which are not right.

Fraser always seemed arrogant to me, maybe that was just his way. But at least he stood for something, and did so in his life after politics. Unlike his pants, but then again how many on here have had a similar experience (the Meandarra Hotel, 4am, 1984 :lol: ).

Not sure why we need to continue funding these pricks after they leave politics though, wonder how many dollars would be saved by cutting a swathe through that perk...similar decisions have to be made here at home when times are tough and you've got to find a way to pay for a kg of mince. Funny how the belt tightening rarely seems to affect all the snouts in the trough.

 

[Bribie G]

Yup, Smokin Joe Hockey was on the Telly this morning saying that eventually two people of working age will be supporting one person on the pension and this is just plain wrong. But he's happy to be, personally, riding on everyones' backs for the rest of his fat smug ugly life, even while he's of working age himself.
How do these people put up with themselves?

 

[spog]

Politics, and by extension, politicians, cant really help but reflect the society that surrounds them.
On balance, we live a fairly benign little existence in Aus compared to the rest of the planet. Whilst it would be a treat to have leaders the caliber of a Churchill or T Roosevelt, what would they do? Great leaders are also almost universally uncompromising, is that the kind of leader we really want? The ABC would go into meltdown with back to back satire and media watch programming if nothing else..
In a perverted kind of way, I believe its almost a deliverance that we continue to thrive under the stewardship of of a gaggle of flip flopping, back stabbing ex trade union socialists or neo conservative private school bullies.

Churchill's political and military career was all over the place,but when England needed a PM with balls he delivered.
Ted Roosevelt similarly with his military background ,but I guess back in his and Churchill's day it was the way where society expected strong leadership and a military man was it ?
I agree that we continue to thrive under a stewardship of a gaggle flip flop.......
Perhaps it's down to our Aussie mentality?
Anyway which ever F,wit is in office the next election will sort em out and then we all go back to doing it again..and again...

 

[spog]

Another thing that really pisses me off is smug people in employment who classify themselves as "taxpayers". They are, single handedly, supporting all those leeches who are sucking off their backs, benefiting from their hard work and the income tax they pay.

I'm a pensioner and it's well documented that I actually part with more of my income in tax, by percentage, than the average person on 70k a year.

Petrol excise is a tax. Stamp duty is a tax. Rates are a tax. Grog excise is a tax, road tolls are a tax, GST is a tax, (surprise surprise the T in GST stands for tax), the list is endless.

erm, could this thread be perhaps wandering a bit OT?

Count yourself lucky,here in SA the government hits us with warm and cuddly " Levees" ahh makes all feel so much happier not to be paying a tax.
South Australia is after all a "leader in the country",true bullshit,I kid you not !

 

[goomboogo]

Theodore Roosevelt has been mentioned a couple times in this thread. Maybe, just maybe, we need a Franklin Roosevelt.

 

[Feldon]

(Meanwhile, back at Nareen...)

Below is what I believe to be the last op-ed piece that Malcom Fraser wrote. It was published in the US foreign policy journal The National Interest in December just gone.

When I read it in Feb I was immediately gobsmacked by the sheer audacity of what he was advocating, and the danger to his public standing and place in the Australian political landscape. And I thought straight away that either Fraser had decided that he was going to leave public life for good, or that he knew that he did not have long to live. This was his swan song, his final message to Australia.

He could not have had this piece published and expect to have retained a friend in either the left or right of Australian politics, nor in the media. I say that because these are dangerous words to speak - never in modern Australian history has an ex-PM called for the end of the ANZUS defence alliance with the US.

Not surprisingly it went unreported in the mainstream Australian media at the time (insert sound of crickets chirping). No one dared touch it. And it remains unreported in the many obituaries that have appeared in recent days (please correct me if I'm wrong and if you know of some coverage I'd love to know how current politicians and the foreign affairs and defence journos reacted to Fraser's view)

You may agree or disagree with Fraser's view, but while all of us here are looking back and interpreting Fraser's life he died bravely looking forward into the future, trying to envision an independent sovereign Australia that he would never live see.

America: Australia's Dangerous Ally

by Malcolm Fraser, 16 Dec 2014.

Australia should not embrace America, writes its former prime minister, but preserve itself from Washington’s reckless overreach.

IT IS time for Australia to end its strategic dependence on the United States. The relationship with America, which has long been regarded as beneficial, has now become dangerous to Australia’s future. We have effectively ceded to America the ability to decide when Australia goes to war. Even if America were the most perfect and benign power, this posture would still be incompatible with the integrity of Australia as a sovereign nation. It entails not simply deference but submission to Washington, an intolerable state of affairs for a country whose power and prosperity are increasing and whose national interests dictate that it enjoy amicable, not hostile, relations with its neighbors, including China.

As painful as a reassessment of relations may be for intellectual and policy elites, there are four principal reasons why one is long overdue. First, despite much blather about a supposed unanimity of national purpose, the truth is that the United States and Australia have substantially different values systems. The idea of American exceptionalism is contrary to Australia’s sense of egalitarianism. Second, we have seen the United States act in an arbitrary, imprudent and capricious fashion. It has made a number of ill-advised and ill-informed decisions concerning Eastern Europe, Russia and the Middle East. Third, at the moment, because of U.S. military installations in Australia, if America goes to war in the Pacific, it will take us to war as well—without an independent decision by Australia. Finally, under current circumstances, in any major contest in the Pacific, our relationship with America would make us a strategic target for America’s enemies. It is not in Australia’s interest to be in that position.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/america-australias-dangerous-ally-11858

 

[booargy]

Our current leaders remind me of junkies looking around to find something to sell to pay for their next fix. As above they are to busy looking after the drug dealer instead of they family.

 

[Weizguy]

I don't know about having a leader who is uncompromising, but our leader at the moment is having to make compromises, which doesn't help our country, we are looking towards a bleak future unless the budget can be fixed which is what this coalition government was voted in to do. What would Malcom do if he was at the crease now, unfortunately all I know about him is what I wrote in an essay on the great man while at school.
Every spending cut put forward is being blocked by Labour who has no ideas or plans of their own, we are borrowing $110 million every day, and as Glen Stevens said in Brisbane yesterday,we have to tackle the problem now or it will be harder medicine to swallow down the track.

You seem to be working under the mistaken impression or rhetoric, as is Tony A, that the Liberal government received a mandate at the last Federal election.

Time to accept that they did not win the election, they just won the backlash/beat the party that was voted out. It was/is NOT a justification for them to assume that we want what they have on the table.
I thought that as a reasonable individual, you would be able to recognise those facts?

As for the newspapers Murdoch owns 70% of the Australian newspapers according to Kevin Dud so the chances are I would read one of Murdoch's rags

Kevin Dud? Seriously? Careful, I see your political prejudices showing.

Yup, Smokin Joe Hockey was on the Telly this morning saying that eventually two people of working age will be supporting one person on the pension and this is just plain wrong. But he's happy to be, personally, riding on everyones' backs for the rest of his fat smug ugly life, even while he's of working age himself.
How do these people put up with themselves?

Was wondering how many "people of working age" will be needed to support him, in his early retirement, while he goes to work for private industries that he's carefully forged links with during his period in power?
Anyone else notice how much weight Joe lost prior to the election, and how much excess he has gained since being back in power. Indicative of...?

Interesting re: the man himself....I'm not sure why but I have always voted Labor bar two times....the first when Keating was ousted, and the second when Bligh was the victim of the bloodbath in Qld. Both times it was an anti Labor vote rather than pro the other mob due to what I saw at the time was flagrant arrogance, dishonesty, and complete disdain for we as citizens who are actually the foundation of this country. Maybe I went Labor due to my very first recognisance of an Australian political event which was the drunken bum giving Gough's mob the flick, something which I do recall at the time just didn't seem right to me, regardless of how well or not Australia was being governed (something of which I had no understanding of at all). And I have always had very strong thoughts about things which are not right.

Fraser always seemed arrogant to me, maybe that was just his way. But at least he stood for something, and did so in his life after politics. Unlike his pants, but then again how many on here have had a similar experience (the Meandarra Hotel, 4am, 1984 :lol: ).

Not sure why we need to continue funding these pricks after they leave politics though, wonder how many dollars would be saved by cutting a swathe through that perk...similar decisions have to be made here at home when times are tough and you've got to find a way to pay for a kg of mince. Funny how the belt tightening rarely seems to affect all the snouts in the trough.

Look, I don't want to get into what's right or wrong in Australian politics or history, suffice to say I feel something went astray with the double dissolution, and there have been many more similar situations since that were not escalated to the same conclusion.
As for funding our politicians, I agree that they are too well looked after financially, as well as by associations formed and jobs teed up for when they leave office.
I'd like to see a fair portion of their not-insignificant wages ploughed into superannuation, invested in infrastructure, and then they can do what they want with it when they reach retirement age. (Maybe it's already structured that way?)

As for Feldon's feedback, it would have been good to see old Malcolm's political 'balls' during his political career, rather than see him publicly flaunt them, knowing he was was on the way out, with little to lose.

In closing, I'd be happy for the Mods to close this thread, as it's gone way off-topic, and I've now had my say.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Our current leaders remind me of junkies looking around to find something to sell to pay for their next fix. As above they are to busy looking after the drug dealer instead of they family.

+1 That is the best I have ever heard that put.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Time to accept that they did not win the election

This sentence pretty much sums up the entire sentiment of the left. At least those posting on this site.

Time to get over the fact that the worst PM in Australia's history, guided the worst government in living memory to one of the biggest ever electoral losses.

You don't like it, too bad.

It beggars belief that some people think the previous shadow boxing, spendthrift, Labor government was worthy of office.

 

[Seaquebrew]

Life wasn't meant to be easy, nor death apparently

Regardless of your politics, a life well lived

Cheers to him