Upright Fire Extinguisher

[wombil]

Hello All,
Does anyone use a fire extinguisher for carbonation in an upright position?
I have heard of it being done and think I saw one configured this way on someones web page.
The extinguisher would run 70 to 90 kpa on the low pressure side and not be used for forced carbing.
Hope this works ok,will save a bit of stuffing about.
Thanks fellers,
wombil.

 

[kelbygreen]

didnt know there was another way to run them??? what way where you told the best??? As all co2 tanks run in upright well so I thought otherwise mines wrong and you hold the extinguisher upright when using (fire purposes) so id think its ok but never converted one or seen a converted one.

 

[amiddler]

An extinguisher is the same as any other cylinder as long as the dip tube is removed. You want C02 gas in your beer not liquid C02. If the dip tube is still in the extinguisher just turn it upside down.

Drew

Edit: Kelby, As above the dip tube in a standard extinguisher sucks up the liquid C02 to put out the fire. You don't want the liquid in your beer.

 

[kelbygreen]

ahh they got dip tubes there you go learn something every day lol

 

[kelbygreen]

I always thought they took the oxigen out of the fire with the co2 so the fire had no oxigen to flame it. Well it does but in liquid form I guess

 

[amiddler]

I always thought they took the oxigen out of the fire with the co2 so the fire had no oxigen to flame it. Well it does but in liquid form I guess

It does displace oxygen but just the gas on it's own doesn't give you much bang for your buck. You get the liquid out of the extinguisher which turns to gas quickly and displaces alot more oxygen quite quickly. It also has a cooling effect on the fire so 2 birds 1 stone.

Drew

 

[michael_aussie]

Hello All,
Does anyone use a fire extinguisher for carbonation in an upright position?
I have heard of it being done and think I saw one configured this way on someones web page.
The extinguisher would run 70 to 90 kpa on the low pressure side and not be used for forced carbing.
Hope this works ok,will save a bit of stuffing about.
Thanks fellers,
wombil.

I've used extinguishers for nearly a year now.
As I understand ..
a standard CO2 bottle does not have a dip tube .. and therefore dispenses gas rather than liquid CO2.
a standard extinguisher has a dip tube that goes to the bottom of the extinguisher to dispense liquid CO2 onto a fire (similar to the beer out dip tube of kegs). This isnt what you want for your keg. For this reason, many people have posted at AHB that you should invert your standard CO2 extinguisher, so that its dip tube is drawing from gas rather than liquid.

WHAT IVE FOUND
Ive used both standard and dip-tubeless extinguishers.
When using the standard extinguishers I found that during dispensing beer, I had absolutely no problems using the extinguisher upright.
When using the standard extinguishers I found that during force carbonating beer, I sometimes had minor problems using the extinguisher upright. These problems were:
1. Sometimes I was getting liquid (I assume CO2) in my gas line. I assume it was CO2 (what else could it be) and therefore this must have passed through my regulator. Im not sure this is a good thing.
2. Sometimes I had lots of frosting on the top of the extinguisher and around the regulator. Once again I assume this isnt good.

WHAT I DID
I used the extinguishers upright during dispensing and I inverted while force carbonating. When the extinguishers were empty, I was fortunate enough to find a fire service company that was prepared to remove the dip tubes and then refill my extinguishers.
Now I use the extinguishers upright all the time.

MY ADVICE
You will have no problems with what you have proposed.

 

[wombil]

Yes I know about turning them upside down to put the dip tube in the gas area but thought that with a slow release of
70-90 kpa that it would only draw gas from the top of the dip tube anyway.
Hoping.

 

[adniels3n]

Michael, can you give a brief run-down of the mods required to turn an extinguisher into a refillable unit? I have some fireys who say they'll refill it if I can explain/prove it's safe. BOC hire out here is too expensive.

 

[wombil]

Thankyou Michael Aussie,
You have confirmed my thoughts as I intended working precicely along those lines.
With the extinguisher upright I can fit it in the fridge with the kegs.
Thanks Mate,
wombil.

 

[wombil]

Lo muddsy,
If you have an empty fire extinguisher and can get the dip tube removed it becomes an ordinary CO2 cylinder that can be safely refilled.Bigger companies like BOC probably will shy away from it cause they want the rental but smaller gas suppliers seem ok.You can also get a standard valve [has to have a blow off in it I think,but no big deal] and connect up your co2 regulator and that's it.Australian extinguishers have a BSP thread and I have an oxy welding gauge adapted to fit.Cost about $5.
I'll probably be in the Isa for rodeo.See ya at the Irish Club.

 

[michael_aussie]

Michael, can you give a brief run-down of the mods required to turn an extinguisher into a refillable unit? I have some fireys who say they'll refill it if I can explain/prove it's safe. BOC hire out here is too expensive.

I've never seen inside a CO2 extinguisher ... so this is my understanding.
1. The outer casing and the valve body form a closed sealed unit.
2. Similiar to a beer dip tube on a keg, the CO2 dip tube isn't part of the actual sealed vessel, but directs where the CO2 comes from when the valve is opened.
3. The dip tube can be removed (once the valve body has been removed).
4. The valve body can be refitted once the dip tube has been removed.
5. The extinguisher can be refilled once it's been reassembled without the dip tube ...with no issues.

I was fortunate to find a firey who, after he understood what I wanted to use the extinguisher for .. didn't blink an eye at removing the dip tube.

I'm sure it is all simple "fitting", however I feel more comfortable knowing that someone who actually works with high pressure fittings is the one who modified my extinguishers.
If you work in this area, I'm sure you could do it yourself .. however, if you don't then it's not worth the risk. (my 1.7 cents)

Thankyou Michael Aussie,
You have confirmed my thoughts as I intended working precicely along those lines.
With the extinguisher upright I can fit it in the fridge with the kegs.
Thanks Mate,
wombil.

my pleasure wombil .. I've learnt so much at this site .. that I'm glad if I can give back.

 

[adniels3n]

Lo muddsy,
If you have an empty fire extinguisher and can get the dip tube removed it becomes an ordinary CO2 cylinder that can be safely refilled.Bigger companies like BOC probably will shy away from it cause they want the rental but smaller gas suppliers seem ok.You can also get a standard valve [has to have a blow off in it I think,but no big deal] and connect up your co2 regulator and that's it.Australian extinguishers have a BSP thread and I have an oxy welding gauge adapted to fit.Cost about $5.
I'll probably be in the Isa for rodeo.See ya at the Irish Club.

The Irish has lost it's late license, so you'll have to cut your party short at 12:00. Picked up a few yummy Erdinger Weizenbocks yesterday from their bottle-o. Back to the bottle, do you fit a gate valve, or use the existing handle trigger? I'm sure I can get the boys to agree to that.

 

[michael_aussie]

..... Back to the bottle, do you fit a gate valve, or use the existing handle trigger? I'm sure I can get the boys to agree to that.

I have the handle trigger valves refitted to mine ... although, I have to admit a conventional valve would sometimes be handy.
The handle trigger certainly is "all or nothing" when opening .. and you either need to rig up a loop to hold it open ....
or .... like I do....
dispense the CO2 in bursts.

This means that you have less control over the keg pressure.
This works ok for me as I have flow adjustable taps.... I'm not sure the burst method would be as effective with non-adjustable taps.

 

[glaab]

I don't think the liquid in your lines would be co2 micheal, pretty sure it would be a gas at less than about 50psi. My bottle has been on it's side for 6months in this cradle doodad I made so it couldn't get knocked over and it seems to operate no differently but now I'm worried I'm gonna stuff it up. I'll ask the guys at firesafe about it tomorrow when I get a refill.

 

[DKS]

Just to make things more confusing, I was talking to a AHB member recently who said a diptube that was removed from his extinguisher had holes at the top of it near the valve so no need to turn upside down. Question is then are they all like that or just one brand. Has anyone actually seen a removed diptube? And the gate vales mentioned above, where from? and how much?
Ive mounted mine upside down on the wall with cable tie around trigger, works fine.
Daz

 

[michael_aussie]

I don't think the liquid in your lines would be co2 micheal, pretty sure it would be a gas at less than about 50psi. My bottle has been on it's side for 6months in this cradle doodad I made so it couldn't get knocked over and it seems to operate no differently but now I'm worried I'm gonna stuff it up. I'll ask the guys at firesafe about it tomorrow when I get a refill.
View attachment 47043

i hear what you are saying .."I don't think the liquid in your lines would be co2 micheal, pretty sure it would be a gas at less than about 50psi" ... but how could it be anything else? The system would have only CO2 in it. I'd be interested to hear other opinions

I'm interested to see your cradle.
Logic would tell me that when your bottle was full (I think they fill to 70% of the "water capacity") you would get liquid rather than gas.
Did you use this set up right from the start of a full bottle?

Just to make things more confusing, I was talking to a AHB member recently who said a diptube that was removed from his extinguisher had holes at the top of it near the valve so no need to turn upside down. Question is then are they all like that or just one brand. Has anyone actually seen a removed diptube? And the gate vales mentioned above, where from? and how much?
Ive mounted mine upside down on the wall with cable tie around trigger, works fine.
Daz

I still think you should use a "standard" extinguisher upside down when you are using gas quickly {force carbonating by the rocking high pressure method ("Ross's Method"), or cleaning out empty kegs for example}.

 

[jimi]

I use a unconverted extinguisher which stands upright and I force carb (Ross style) without issues. To avoid frosting when opening up the reg to higher pressures, I just make a habit of slowly increasing pressure and frosting hasn't been an issue since. I like having the fire extinguisher trigger, it means no fear that a leak will empty me of all my gas. Anytime I feel the carb of the beer is dropping I just squeeze the trigger for a couple of secs.

Safety wise it's vital your extinguisher is secure (in which ever position) as a dropped & broken extinguisher quickly becomes a rocket spewing out gas cold enough to burn fingers an skin off

 

[stillscottish]

Just to make things more confusing, I was talking to a AHB member recently who said a diptube that was removed from his extinguisher had holes at the top of it near the valve so no need to turn upside down. Question is then are they all like that or just one brand. Has anyone actually seen a removed diptube? And the gate vales mentioned above, where from? and how much?
Ive mounted mine upside down on the wall with cable tie around trigger, works fine.
Daz

That was mine Daz. 2mm (approx) hole right at the top. I've still got it at home so I'll post a pic when I can.
I get my stinguisher filled at the place I bought it from. They're a little bit more expensive than some places I believe but I've had no problems getting them to remove the dip tube and at the last fill, replacing the O ring in the release valve.

Campbell

 

[sp0rk]

I've noticed there are a second set of holes for the safety pin on my extinguisher, so the handle can be locked down
don't know if all extinguishers are like this...
No one in my area wanted to remove the dip tube, so I'm going to just get some RHS and weld up a stand that should put the nozzle at around knee height