Understanding Your Co2 Regulator

[Wadey]

Hi All. Well I am making the most of the forum of late, thankgod I found it I have had some great help with my new world of kegging.

I have only just setup my kegerator last week and I am starting to get a bit confused with my regulator.

I just have a few questions about the workings and behavior of the CO2 Regulator, namely:

1. How do you set the regulator for the right pressure, connected to the keg or do you do this first then connect, ie at serving pressure once you have force carbonated
2. I force carbonated then set the guage at 70kpa but find that the pressure drops over night (by 20kpa) and find i have to adjust, i did find that the beer appeard under carbed, so is this simply and indication that is it still absorbing co2 and the pressure is dropping due to this.
3. If I keep adjusting the CO2 guage to bring it back to 70kpa then how will I know when it is finished absorbing CO2, will the guage stop falling? (i have checked for leaks and found nothing)
4. I currently have the gas on and set to 70kpa, after much fiddling around and not knowing exactly what I am doing, should I continue with it connected and keep toping up, or is there a leak that i have not found yet.
5. Should I turn the gas bottle off, disconnect the gas disconnect, release pressure somehow (not sure how), turn gas bottle back on and set pressure to 70kpa and reconnect and check tomorrow.

So guys based on the questions you can see that I have go myself into a state of confusion and really concerned now that I have completed F&*(((&CKED it up and potentially loosing gas somehow.

Any help would be appreciated, FYI I attempeted the Force Carb on 16 Dec so that might help you understanding where things perhaps should be at.

Cheers,

Wadey

 

[kelbygreen]

hey wadey

I am only very new to kegging so please take this answer as a guess more then knowledge

1. after releasing pressure in the keg screw the regulator right in so its on the off possition. connect the gas to the keg (make sure you have a no return valve) then turn the reg till pressure is reached.
2. after you pour a beer or to check the reg as when you screw it up it gets a burst of c02 and can read higher then it is. If its dropped turn it up but if it drops overnight to 20kpa id be thinking a leak as the reg will replace the pressure up to what its set at as its drawn off so once its set it should stay there. Also mines set at 80kpa @3.5c and its nice head and carb so maybe 70kpa is to low?
3. once reg is set as I say it will stay on say 70kpa and the beer will continue to absorb co2 till its reached the volume of co2 its set at for the temp and pressure it cannot aborb any more.
4. Id keep checking for leaks if i was you and dont rule out the reg its self they can some times leak. check keg lid, posts, poppets, q/d , fittings, taps, barbs anything the gas can escape from. buy new seals my carbing and reg stability when up heaps after new seals. I knew there was a leak in poppet on the beer out but must of been tiny leaks soup and water didnt detect on the seals as I find it so much better now.
5. you could turn gas bottle off and leave the keg over night then try release the pressure tomorrow if there is a leak in the keg it will depressurise overnight or will a little. not sure best method to check this. If you have a way to put the whole keg into water then thats a way. but if it losses all its pressure overnight not connected to gas its leaking some where

EDIT: have a read of this link if you havnt already tells you what pressure to set at the temp your on for the desired co2 volumes. LINK!

 

[bignath]

1. after releasing pressure in the keg screw the regulator right in so its on the off possition. connect the gas to the keg (make sure you have a no return valve) then turn the reg till pressure is reached.

agree with kelby with pretty much everything but this point above.

there may be some regulators that operate differently, but on mine, the off position is when the knob is screwed all the way out. Screwing it inwards fully (clockwise) on my reg increases the gas flow.

Kelby's usually pretty good with advice so my guess is that it may depend on your regulator, but either way you understand what he and i are sayin'.....

For a dash of confidence, the concerns you have about your recent foray into kegging are very normal. I went through it a few years back when i made the leap and this forum also gave me a lot of good advice. Sounds to me like you have a better understanding of it than you may think..

cheers mate,

nath

 

[Brewjohno]

Once the pressure it set on the regulator you really shouldn't have to touch it until the next time you want to force carbonate a keg.

I never leave my gas turned on longer than is required to pour a beer. It can be very expensive if you get a leak.

If you need to release the pressure from your reg once it is disconnected use something like a flat bladed screw driver to depress the silver button on the inside of the gas connect. This will allow the gas retained in the line to escape in a split second.

I don't really understand about the gas dropping overnight. It is quite possibly absorbing as you suggest but then all you should need to do is turn the gas back on, not alter the reg itself.
Once you have reached maximum absorption in the keg based on the level you set it at (eg 70kpa) then it will cease to absorb any more. It is not really possible to overcarbonate once the reg is set.

If you keep playing with the reg by turning it up and down then you will get very inconsistant pours. You also run the risk of having the beer return up your gas line in the extreme circumstance.

Lastly when determining if your kegs have leaks I use my pool. I have read suggestions about soapy water in a spray bottle etc but they never really work for me.

Put some gas in your empty keg at a decent pressure (80 - 100) and then submerge the entire keg in the pool or bath tub. You'll soon see if you have a leak.

Brewjohno.

 

[Wadey]

Thanks Guys.

Yeah, correct about the reg Nath, mine is a Tesuco and has to be unscrewed to be fully off.

Kelby, thanks for the advice mate, I will turn the gas off and check in the morning and see how much the needle drops. Then as you say depressurise and set back to 80kpa.

Do you guys leave the gas on all the time at 80kpa, I guess if I do have a leak it wont stay at 80kpa with the gas on or off, is that right.

See how it goes tonight,

Thanks heaps.

 

[bignath]

I turn the gas off unless pouring.

typically, i force carb, burp keg, force carb, burp again, drop pressure to serving...

once my keg is carbed the gas goes off (i don't have any leaks, i just like the preventative thing...) i pour beers until i notice the pour rate getting slower. Then i give it a quick shot of gas and turn off again. My gas bottle is located to the frame that my keezer sits in, so it's easy to access.

Works for me.

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah leave gas on. if its not fully reached the co2 volume it will continue to carb the beer till its reached the volume you want. with force carbing your beer will seem flat for first few days. it will pour well nice carb then 2 mins later heads gone. thats just force carbing, ideal world is to leave one set kpa say 80 for a week. or you can force carb (go a little under if you like) then let excess co2 out put beer out on the gas line put onto the keg for 2 days then swap the d/c or the gas hose over and connect to the gas in. connecting to the beer out forces co2 from the bottom of the keg making the beer absorb co2 faster as it has to travel threw the beer to get to the top not be forced from the top down. Hope that make sense I tend to not make sence alot of the time

 

[kelbygreen]

As nath says that another way to do it, but I figure if there is no leaks you should be fine to leave gas on. beer will only absorb what the pressure is set at so once its reached that it shouldnt use any more gas only to fill headspace when pouring well of coarse unless you have a leak then it will use more. As I say dont rule out the reg for a leak, As tony he has had a reg leak and as he said it was the last thing he thought of but its something that cant be ruled out. not just the reg barb but the reg its self all the parts on it can leak.

 

[mwd]

Was mucking around on the net and found this on force carbonating you may find interesting or useful only thing is pressures are in PSI.

 

[Nevalicious]

Was mucking around on the net and found this on force carbonating you may find interesting or useful only thing is pressures are in PSI.

Anyone spot the Coopers Brew Enhancers and LDM in the background...

I'm guessing that because he's canadian, this was shot in the States or Canada... Only guessing Good to see a locally made product getting used so far from home!! Man, even I dont use Coopers boxed products any more...

 

[Wadey]

Hi All.

Just thought i would give you an update. Turned the gas off last night with the pressure set at 70kpa, justed got home and checked and it has only drop about 5 kpa, so I am guessing that is ok. I turned the gas bottle on to see if it would go up but didnt budge, does that tell me it has reached its full amount of CO2 with this regulator setting.

 

[glaab]

that doesn't sound right, if it's set to 70 and dropped off to 65 that might be because it absorbed the gas but I think it should go back up to 70 when you turn it back on.

 

[Wadey]

Good point Glaab, might try that again now and see what happens.

 

[Brewjohno]

that doesn't sound right, if it's set to 70 and dropped off to 65 that might be because it absorbed the gas but I think it should go back up to 70 when you turn it back on.

Wadey,

Don't forget that the regs we use aren't exactly the highest tuned and calibrated scientific instruments. You are turning a big silver knob, not pressing an electronic button powering a digital display.

If you dropped 5 points that probably sounds reasonable given that you suspected you were under carbed. The fact that the reg didn't jump when you turned the gas on doesn't surprise me. You would probably have found if you left it and poured a beer, at the first hint of a drop it would have kicked back in and filled itself up and most likely topped back out at 70.

Mate, just have a beer and relax. You've done the hard work, now it's time to enjoy it.

Brewjohno.

 

[Wadey]

True mate, I think things are now behaving as they should, was interesting discovery journey this first keg. Anyway, as you said, its now time to sit down and enjoy it over Xmas.

Thanks All for your help, its been great.

 

[Wadey]

Hi guys.

My issues continue might see if there is someone on the north side of brissy to come over and have a look. As I said pressure was fine for almost 24 hours with the gas off then this morning it had dropped to 20kpa so who knows. I might disconnect the keg when I get home and put it in the bath and check for leaks tried the soapy water trick on the reg but found nothing, might give Ross a call at craftbrewer and see what he says. Did notice something strange I turned the gas bottle on this morning and the reading went up to 110 kpa but I had the reg set at 80kpa how can that be?

Sorry guys I'm at a loss now

 

[glaab]

GDay Wadey,
disconnect your kegs then wind your reg up to 1 bar or something and turn the bottle off, then if it moves you have a leak somewhere.
Maybe your guage has a sticky action?, tap it at different times and see if it moves. You haven't had beer get in it have you? Got a backflow preventer doodad? Thanks for the reply to my post about Tesuco regs but after reading this post I'm a bit worried. I have used a Harris reg for about 2yrs wiht no problems, but I want a dual output reg and the Tesuco is less than half the price of a micromatic dual output. I do like a lot of guys here, I have my reg set to about 1bar [for APA's] and never touch it, I just connect the kegs and in about a week theyre good, I leave the gas on always. Good luck getting it sorted, I'm sure one of the guys up there will have a look at it for you if you get stuck. Cheers

 

[Wadey]

Hey Glaab

Thanks mate by 1 bar do you mean 100kpa? I will give it a go will also put the keg in the bath and see how that goes

 

[Pennywise]

Yep, 1 bar is 100kpa is 14.5 psi

 

[Wadey]

Folks, this is what ocurred this arvo when I got home to check on the regulator:

Found it sitting at 10kpa

There is a high pressure guage on the left side facing the gas bottle and I have found that when the other guage was reading 10kpa (lower than this morning) the high pressure guage has dropped about i increment. So i disconnected from the keg, depressed the disconnect to release the gas but was only watching the gas bottle side gauge until it went back to 0. Then turned gas on and got the same result, ie no movement back to 80 kpa.

Did it again but this time I held the disconnect release for longer, the keg gas guage returned to zero so did the high pressure guage. I then turned the gas bottle back on and the keg side gauge returned to 80kpa. Does that make any sense? I just thought that was interesting, perhaps the High Pressure guage has something to do with this and the only way the reg will return to a previous setting is if the high pressure guage has also returned to 0.

I have sent and email to my supplier as I feel the reg might be faulty and the root cause of all the issues.

Shaun