Two Bays (Gluten Free) Grain Kits

[Schikitar]

Just wondering if anyone has brewed with any of the Two Bays gluten free grain kits?
https://www.twobays.beer/collections/brew-packs

I want to get a gluten free beer on the go for a few friends and family, a mix of gluten sensitive, intolerant and coeliac individuals (don't know why I know so many!). Just not sure what style to go for and if the kits are any good or not. Apparently their house beers are tasty but I've not yet tried them..

Cheers!

 

[goatchop41]

Their beers are bloody fantastic. Their saison at GABS was one of the better beers that I had on the day.

I think that it would be safe to assume that the grain packs would be good quality - Two Bays have import rights to quite a few GF malts, and Richard seems to be a stickler for quality

 

[Schikitar]

Thanks for the feedback @goatchop41 - I've decided I'll brew the stout and have ordered the pack (plus an extra kilo of rice malt to beef up the ABV), will report back on the process and end result!

 

[bingggo]

Does the grain come milled?

Cheers,
B

 

[Schikitar]

Does the grain come milled?

Not sure but I'll let you know when it arrives..

 

[bingggo]

I exchanged some fb messages with the Brewery. They don't have capacity to mill it for homebrewers, and said in their small system they had sometimes used a blender because the grains are so fine (leading to a much finer result which is ok).

I would obviously not want to run it through my barley mill (even if I could dial it down fine enough) because I am sure it is encrusted with gluten

 

[bingggo]

For the non-coeliacs, and the brave coeliac risk-takers, adding Clarity Ferm to normal barley wort with the yeast is a possible option.

 

[Schikitar]

I would obviously not want to run it through my barley mill (even if I could dial it down fine enough) because I am sure it is encrusted with gluten

Okay, this could be a problem and I hadn't considered that, hmmmmmm.. not sure what to do now! This seems like a bit of an oversight on their behalf, surely they could just have a dedicated mill for their customers like a LHBS does..

 

[Schikitar]

Sorry for another post, just wondering if anyone has any recommendations around the enzymes to use in the mash?

 

[bingggo]

I have used my Thermomix blender function to do several very short pulse blends to crush small (250g) amounts of grain when I was doing extract plus spec grain. Would be a slight pain on 3-5 kg but doable I guess

 

[Schikitar]

Just updating my thread now that the brew is almost finished!

I learnt a lot along the way, firstly there was a LOT of cleaning, I had to mill the grains myself so I had to strip down my mill and thoroughly clean it, then when it came to milling the I had to really fiddle with the gap to get the crush right for the millet and then again for the buckwheat and rice, a real pain but got there eventually. The enzymes my LHBS shop gave me were rubbish, so I did everything according the instructions, hit my OG (1.062) etc., but did not get good conversion which I didn't find out until the S04 yeast stalled out at 1.050. Wasn't sure what to do so I contacted the brewer who provides the recipes to Two Bays and he suggested I try some different enzymes and US-05. I got hold of some Whitelabs Ultra-Ferm and tossed that in with a fresh packet of US-05 and a day later it was off again but it was a slow burn, after a week and a half it got down to 1.022 and that's where I've left it, tastes pretty good so I started the cold crash this morning.

The guys from Two Bays were really helpful as was the brewer, the grains arrived promptly and nicely packaged. It's been a challenging and costly brew so I hope my self-proclaimed "glutard" family/friends enjoy my "Never Go Full Glutard" stout! Oh, and in my conversations with the CEO I helped solidify a distributor in Tassie for their beers so at least I won't have to brew another one!

 

[xflibble]

How did it end up?

Also, wish people would stop recommending clarity ferm. The science says "no", people.

 

[fdsaasdf]

woah, their grains are $15-$20/kg, wonder if they're actually selling any at those prices

 

[BrewLizard]

Thanks for sharing the story. I have tried some Two Bays brews and was blown away with how good they got them. Prior to that, GF beers I'd tried were attempting to copy macro lagers and tasted even worse.

I stopped short of buying ingredients when I saw the prices – easier for me to just buy the beer for GF friends than have to spend $100+ on a batch.

 

[MHB]

The Briess Sorghum Syrup works fairly well and is available in 1.5kg canisters. Have found it improves a lot with time in the bottle/keg.
On Clarity Ferm, it’s a lot more complex than just a no. For people who are sensitive to too much gluten it can help a lot, for those truly allergic, well that’s a different story. It dramatically reduces some of the key problem causing proteins but won’t eliminate them entirely. Worth considering for some people.

Some of the specialty products offered by Two Bays could play very well with products like the sorghum syrup above. Personally I wouldn’t be too critical of the prices, have looked at what it takes to make GF malt and it’s an expensive process for what is a small market. At a minimum give them the credit for doing a lot of work to bring what are widely regarded as high quality products to people who need them.
Mark

 

[BrewLizard]

On Clarity Ferm, it’s a lot more complex than just a no. For people who are sensitive to too much gluten it can help a lot, for those truly allergic, well that’s a different story.

Medically, there are allergies (like wheat allergy), and Coeliac disease, which is a type IV hypersensitivity (autoimmune) condition. Clarityferm isn't safe in either.

For those "sensitive to gluten" (usually self-diagnosed), believing that their food is gluten free usually fixes all symptoms. Alternatively, they have genuine issues with FODMAPs, which includes things like apples, onions and gluten-containing cereals (but not really in beer-level concentrations).

Clarityferm wouldn't really make a difference to any of these scenarios.

In Australia, there are significant numbers of people who unnecessarily subject themselves to gluten-free diets. Not in itself a problem, but the GF marketing machine is a powerful force, and it's frustrating as both a doctor and someone with loved ones with Coeliac disease to go to places with "low gluten" food; or worse, "gluten-free" food with cross contamination because "most people don't react to it".

Edit: to put it in perspective, there are between 4 and 15 people with self-diagnosed gluten sensitivity to every one Coeliac. This produces a huge discrepancy in demand for gluten-free vs. gluten-free-ish food, and also a desensitising effect on food handlers.

 

[MHB]

Pretty much agree, especially on the self diagnosed sufferers.

Gluten is protein (part of a family of) and Clarity Ferm is a Protease, there are at least 4 common barley proteases that are pretty active in the mashing temperature range.
Did an experiment once using endoprotease (the pure enzyme not Clarity Frem), a mash regieme, boil and fining with PVPP along with post fermentation PVPP and filtration all designed to minimise proteine in the finished beer.
Sent a sample of to an accredited lab, along with some other samples for a GF wort kit we were trying to develop.
It got through without triggering the allergen test that allowed us to say our product was GF. Thin as water and had the head holding of coke, so a partial success, but not commercially viable.
I'm sure someone will come up with an enzyme/process that will attack the specific proteins that cause the allergic reaction and reduce them to smaller (safe) proteins, peptides... we aren’t there yet.
If someone has the type of response that requires they carry their EpiPen everywhere, they know how careful they need to be. For those who find their gluten induced discomfort isn’t reduced by duct taping a small amethyst crystal into their navels I’m sure there are lots of things that can help.
Mark