Tsing Tsao Style Rice/extract Asian Beers

[manticle]

My next brew is to introduce the lady to the joys of homebrew. She's not a big beer drinker but she loves Tsing Tsao and other lighter asian style beers such as Tiger. She can't tolerate a lot of wheat and we think it may be the rice basis for a lot of these that makes them more easygoing for her.

While I generally prefer strong maltier styles such as stouts and dark ales, I don't mind the occasional Tsing Tsao either.

I found an online recipe that is meant to be Tsing Tsao clone or thereabouts and I'm tweaking it a little.

Currently I'm thinking:

1.5 kg Morgans extra pale LME
1 kg LDME
500g maltodextrin
500g -1kg (not sure which) rice flour
250g crystal malt (steeped)
20 Tettnanger@ 60
10g Tettnanger @ 10
20g Sterling @ 30
10g sterling @ end boil
Rice water (boil 2 cups rice in 5 L water) till rice is soft. Strain. Discard rice
Irish Moss

60 min boil including rice water.

22L

Any feedback appreciated.

 

[bconnery]

I made an attempt for a mate who also likes these sort of beers.
I actually used rice. I did a partial mash with the rice but what you are doing looks ok.
I'd drop the maltodextrin or else reduce it a lot as I think it gives a slick body which will be out of place here.

This is what I did and it tasted very asian lager like...
200g pilsner malt. 2kg Light LME. 500g Light DME. 100g Crystal malt. 500g rice. 50g Saaz. Saflager s-23 yeast. 350g Dextrose

I used the water from the crystal and the rice to start the boil then:
35g Saaz@45 LME and DME @15 15g Saaz @5 10g Saaz & Dextrose @end

I think your recipe will also be in style but I'd use dextrose instead of maltodextrin myself, you want it to ferment out and finish dryer, but I've only tried to make one of these once so I'm hardly an expert...

Edit: Added the pilsner malt that was in the recipe. Not enough by far as I discovered later.
I was also going to say there was a thread here recently I think about rice extract syrup which might also be the go for you.

 

[bradmcm]

Where are you getting the enzymes to convert the rice starch to dextrins from???
If you are not prepared to mash, then use sugar - both are flavourless adjuncts and you don't have to do anything to the sugar.

 

[manticle]

I have a kg of dextrose so maybe I'll add 500g of that and lessen the maltodextrin to between 250 and 500?. The original recipe I saw used corn sugar (maltodextrin) so my assumption was that without it the beer would be too watery. However I guess tsing tsao and the like are reasonably dry and don't have masses of body so maybe the original was over the top?

I did read somewhere else that cooking the rice will help converting the rice starches which is why I'm adding the rice water.

 

[manticle]

In the end I went with:


1.5 kg Morgans extra pale LME
1 kg LDME
250g maltodextrin
500g dex
500g rice flour
250g crystal malt (steeped)
20 Tettnanger@ 60
10g Tettnanger @ 10
20g Sterling @ 30
10g sterling @ end boil
3 L Rice water
Irish Moss
Lager Yeast

22L

The rice flour and maltodextrin went clumpy but I can't see any harm leaving it there until I rack to secondary

 

[Adamt]

Cooking the rice will release the starches... but they'll still be starches. Unfortunately your rice additions will provide SFA towards fermentables, could provide an interesting flavour though. Whether that is good- or bad-interesting or not, I'm not sure.

 

[manticle]

I'm aware that I'm unlikely to get much fermentable anything from the rice which is why I have the dex, LME, maltodextrin and amber malt in there. It's mainly a flavour experiment and I've read that rice can help lighten beer which makes sense in a tsing tsao style. Essentially to my mind the rice is like a brewer adding weet-bix or flour to contribute flavour to a wheat beer.

I did find a recipe for rice beer that was just rice, water, sugar and yeast and the rice had to be cooked to convert the staches but I wasn't convinced. It sounded a bit like poor man's piss/moocher's moonshine to me.

http://www.geocities.com/xxi1933/recipes-exotic.html#asia

The other recipe I found contained all the above fermentables + dry rice extract. The LHBS had nothing of the sort so I assumed rice flour would either be the same or the next best thing.



Either it will go well or it will be food for the plants. I'm brewing a Belgian tomorrow so I won't be short for the autumn.

 

[bradmcm]

Well, you will get a very cloudy beer and the starches will be there and just ripe for infections.
Good luck!

If you add some amylase it might help...

 

[kook]

Why not just buy rice syrup from your LHBS? Or do a mini-mash with the rice.

Adding rice flour wont "lighten" a beer unless it's converted through a mash. It'll just add starch. Try this: pour yourself two glasses of beer, and add a teaspoon of rice flour to one. If you like it, go for it, otherwise it's just a waste of a batch.

 

[Bribie G]

As I posted on another thread this morning, this rice malt syrup is available from chinese supermarkets in 500g tubs for $2. The work has been done for you.
Tastes nice and malty too. :icon_cheers:

 

[Fourstar]

As I posted on another thread this morning, this rice malt syrup is available from chinese supermarkets in 500g tubs for $2. The work has been done for you.
Tastes nice and malty too. :icon_cheers:

Bribie,

Is that stuff the brown malt? Are you sure its rice? Just because the liquid malt Chinese use for BBQ Roast Duck from memory is made from malted barley, not malted rice.

I know you can get a rice syrup extract from some asian grocers, which is much like corn syrup/liquid glucose (clear). I'd assume that would be a good option over using straight surcose.

 

[afromaiko]

There was a thread about this just last week I think. Use a 500gm jar of Rice Malt syrup per brew. Available from health food shops, or the bigger Coles stores.

 

[Fourstar]

Oh wait that Maltose stuff Bribie has is probably the Brown Rice Maltose. they also have the white rice maltose which you would want.

 

[manticle]

I looked for rice syrup at my local safeway but couldn't find any. That was my first thought.

I didn't buy from my LHBS because they had no rice products. My question about it made them think it might be worthwhile getting some in (although the guy who served me was the junior employee so maybe he just didn't know). I'm not familiar enough with mashing yet - I'm at the extract plus specialty grains stage. If you just mean boiling up some rice and using the water then see recipe because that is what I did. If you mean something else can you explain as I may have another crack if it doesn't work out (or if it works but needs improving).

It's using a lager yeast and will be transferred to secondary and lagered for a week or two a 2 deg so maybe that + finings will help lessen the cloudiness. If it doesn't work then I may have another go following some of the suggestions here. The low temp should hopefully make the ferment less prone to infection but we'll have to see.

The Chinese malt syrup looks a possibility. I would have tried that except I made mine before I saw that post.

@bradcmc: would I be likely to find amaylase at my LHBS?

 

[buttersd70]

@bradcmc: would I be likely to find amaylase at my LHBS?

AFAIK, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the amalyse Brad is referring to is the much maligned "dry enzyme"....

 

[Bribie G]

Bribie,

Is that stuff the brown malt? Are you sure its rice? Just because the liquid malt Chinese use for BBQ Roast Duck from memory is made from malted barley, not malted rice.

I know you can get a rice syrup extract from some asian grocers, which is much like corn syrup/liquid glucose (clear). I'd assume that would be a good option over using straight surcose.

Brewed and cubed last night and added the rice syrup this morning. It's a clear light golden syrup about the same colour as lyles golden, but THICK, not at all like honey - more like a gooey soft toffee. Ingredients listed are "rice, water, malt". It is very sweet and has a slight malty hint. I reckon it will go great in this brew. Tasted the hydrometer sample and the wort tastes fantastic. The addition bumped the OG to 1052 :icon_drunk:

 

[Fourstar]

Sounds good Bribie, I wonder what effect the caramelization will have on the flavour of the beer post fermentation. Interested to see the results.

 

[Bribie G]

On the recent rice syrup thread someone said that it doesn't ferment right out, maybe it's got some sort of rice dextrins in it, I'll be interested to see what the FG is, as I'm using US-05 which is quite low-fermenting. It's certainly made the wort frothy in a fairy floss sort of way when I aerated it. Let's see how it gets on with the yeasties, might be like a Jackie Chan movie in my fermenter.

 

[chappo1970]

BribieG I'm keen on knowing and if possible trying :icon_drunk: your creation for one.

 

[Bribie G]

I'll bring one to the April club if Allah spares it. Basically it's the easiest AG I've ever done and the wort tastes sensational (Pitched this morning)

4kg Galaxy
1kg rice boiled till mushy

66 degrees 90 mins


20g Chinook 90 minutes.
whirlfloc

500g tub Maltose rice syrup from the Burlington Chinese Supermarket, Valley.

In 25 litres it yielded 1052 OG and you wouldn't believe how much hop flavour is in it, despite low hopping rate.

Edit US-05 but next one I'll go colder with a lager yeast such as s-23.