Trying to improve my efficiency

[Damn]

I feel like I'm chasing my tail here. I just trying to find the right figures for my equipment. I think, as you will read/see I'm getting poor efficiency. Attached is a fairly straightforward recipe in the aim to confirm my figures. From recent brew(s) I calculated my 50L Alum pot with a KK 2000 watt element to be 58% and from what I've read that's pretty poor? I do BIAB. The last brew I did I aimed for 23.0l in the fermenter (is this the batch size?). I got 22.5. That's ok as I partially left the lid on for a more vigorous boil. Don't get me wrong I'm enjoying the beer I make I just want order the right amounts of grains & hops to achieve the numbers on others recipes.

I aimed for 1.053. I got that reading at the end of the 60min boil. When I remeasured at 20c pouring into fermenter I got 1.050.

Attached is my recipe. Things I tried this time around to improve efficiency are.

Checked my scales & thermometer against others I have.
Checked my volume measures.
Checked/calibrated my refractometer.
Did 90min mash instead of 60min.
Squeezed the shite out of the bag.

According to calculations I have to drop this pot to 55% to achieve the target OG.

Haven't gone down the Iodine/Ph testing route yet, I was trying to keep it simple.

Any feedback would be welcome.

Thanks.

 

[elcarter]

Hey mate need some more info to help you out,

Mash times are there but at what Mash temp?

Do you rinse the bag with more water to get some extra residual sugar after you've pulled it from the mash pot?

Are you taking any SG readings after your mash and before your boil?

Are you re-circulating your mash with a pump over the grain bag?

When wort cools it increases in indicated SG value. For instance indicated 1.058 @ 61 deg will be 1.075 at 15.6 deg

Appears you've got you dead space pretty much in the ball park so I think it's your method and your hydrometer.

 

[dicko]

The OG when the wort was cool to 20 deg should not be Lower than the wort at the end of the boil. Something wrong there for a start.
Check your hydrometer and you reading method

The main problem for a low efficiency with AG brewing is the size of the grain crush.
With BIAB you can crush your malt a lot finer than compared to a mash tun or BM.
Try that first to determine if that improves efficiency.
When setting up your brewery use the same method every time you brew, if you boil with the lid partially on then do that every time.
Always take accurate measurements and record everything until you are confident.
Get your self a software program for accurate recording and defining accurate volumes and efficiencies.

Let us know how you go with the grain crush.

Good luck

Cheers

 

[SLOSS]

Hi I've had similar issues with biab. What worked well for me was to mash with a ratio of 3:1 with water and grains. For example 5 kg of grain would use 15lt of water. Then I would pour off the sweet liquor into my fermenter leaving the grains in the bag. Then I sparge by pouring water at 70deg over the grains washing the left over sugars out until I have enough volume to do my boil, (my brew software tells me how much I need for my boil). I have found I hit my SG targets every time by doing this. Hope this helps.
Cheers Dave.

 

[Damn]

Hey mate need some more info to help you out,

Mash times are there but at what Mash temp?

Do you rinse the bag with more water to get some extra residual sugar after you've pulled it from the mash pot?

Are you taking any SG readings after your mash and before your boil?

Are you re-circulating your mash with a pump over the grain bag?

When wort cools it increases in indicated SG value. For instance indicated 1.058 @ 61 deg will be 1.075 at 15.6 deg

Appears you've got you dead space pretty much in the ball park so I think it's your method and your hydrometer.

Got my mill set at 0.055, did a double milling. Didn't feel like much point on the 2nd run and I couldn't hear any crushing. Maybe I should adjust mill on 2nd run?

Mashed @67c for 80min approx and tried turning the element back on whilst holding the bag up away from it for the last 10min raising it to 75c. Then pulled my bag out, dropped in a large collander over pot and squeezed like mad.

Did not re-circulate. Haven't got the gear. Just let my bag drip for another 10mins while bringing to boil.

I slow chilled in sealed container over night. Does it matter that I got my drops for my refractometer off the cooled wort from the top of the chilled container just prior to tipping into fermenter?

Sound like I need to measure my refractometer against a hydrometer. Too late now for this brew got a large krausen on it now. Will do for next batch.

 

[elcarter]

Just a thought how do you know it was actually 67 DEG? calibrated with another known source?

Edit a more wiser brewer than me said to set you mill up with a credit card, eg a credit card width and go from there.

 

[Yob]

3 points isnt a great deal mate.. Annoying sure..

Cant work out what you mean by pot is 58%

 

[Damn]

3 points isnt a great deal mate.. Annoying sure..

Cant work out what you mean by pot is 58%

Yeah I agree 3pts is negligible, but I was trying to take a few measures.....longer mash, double mill, check all measuring devices and hoping my efficiency would improve OG and dilute out at the end. As far as my pot is concerned that's its brewhouse efficiency as per image care of brewsmiths calculator. I have to bump that number down to 55% to hit target og. But before that, it sounds like I have nut this bloody refractometer out.

 

[Damn]

Update. Big increase in efficiency. I give thanks to all for helping. But what I think the main increase is at a guess is a 90minute mash and also squeezing the chit out of the bag. I appreciate checking all my measuring equipment, good exercise. Also measuring PH was educating. It really opened my ears/eyes listening to http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio April 24, 2014 - BIAB Legacy. I went back to single milling. Was interested in what results a 90min mash do would are very pleased with the result. In the mean time I've learned that efficiency varies from brew to brew and its not that straight forward to give your equipment an efficiency %. Thanks all. I'm hoping to get average numbers from now on. Watch this space......

 

[Spiesy]

Good work.

Mileage certainly can vary within any one system, particularly with high gravity beers.

 

[fattox]

I've got a couple of cents' input-

1. The grain crush as others have mentioned - I'm hitting 70-75% efficiency on all my beers, to a point - there's something in there about lowering mash efficiency after a certain point in terms of target OG - I think 1.060 or 1.070, can't remember. I know I hit 70% efficiency dead on with a beer that hit 1.065 preboil.

2. Giving a massive stir while mashing in - a lot of the guys I know just dump the grain in and give it a quick stir but I've found the best way is using a paint stirrer up and down for about a minute.

3. As the guys say, mash temps. Aim about 65-66 light body, 66-68 medium and 68-70 full body.

4. If your system allows, try step mashing, or decoction mashing, depending on the style.



5. Invest in a HERMS setup. Bit of copper coil inside a vessel maintained at the step temp, with the wort recirculating through it. I'm in the process of building one of these guys myself. PM me if you're interested in the build!

6. Measure everything! I know my mash efficiency is quite good for BIAB but the actual efficiency overall is a little lower as I still haven't figured out a few numbers (that needs me to get a big ruler so I can do the maths and work them out.

7. Sparge - not a lot but I do it over a bucket with a massive colander that I found at a store in town for catering companies - I let it drain over the kettle then pull it over the bucket, and run some ~75 degree water over it. Not a lot, but just enough to get a bit more extraction. That or just get some nice heatproof gloves and give the grain bag a good squeeze!!

That's my few cents worth anyway, I've been lucky in hitting 70-75 average with an occasional 80% mash efficiency. Brew house usually is around 70-odd, as I still haven't figured out my volumes 100% in terms of grain absorption.