Time For A Sour Mash?

[warrenlw63]

Borret,

I've done a couple of sour mashes. They work OK but results can be a little unpredictable. I've had them with noticeable sourness and some with virtually none detectable at all.

I've found a good shortcut in Witbiers is to add about 5% Acidulated malt. It more or less replicates a sour-mash with a bit more predictability.

If you decide to do a sour mash just mash in the portion (really small esky helps here), let it saccharify, cool it to about 50-55c then throw in a handful of crushed malt. Then cover the top of the mash with some foil to close up the surface area. Try and keep it between about 40-50c for a minimum of 24 hours. Open it up regularly and have a whiff, it will start to smell a bit ordinary. If you have any way of checking the pH your mash is good when it drops below pH 4.0.

Have fun.

Warren -

 

[Borret]

Warren,

So if I do it a week or so before, and chuck it in the freezer to stop progress when it's good and bring it out the night before brewday it should all work smoothly? Will the portion mash actually taste quite sour/ tart at this point or will the smell be a better tell tail?
I don't have anything to test PH with but the lab at work may, but I doubt it. If they do I might do a bouble sour batch and split it for later use.

Cheers

Borret

 

[warrenlw63]

Can't quantify this Borret,

Never frozen a mash. That said I couldn't see you having any problems. As long as you heat the soured portion up to mashing temps.

Hmmmm.... The advanced preparation. <_< Now you can see why I advocate the use of Acidulated Malt. Sour mashing is already done for you.

Warren -

 

[Borret]

Can't quantify this Borret,

Never frozen a mash. That said I couldn't see you having any problems. As long as you heat the soured portion up to mashing temps.

Hmmmm.... The advanced preparation. <_< Now you can see why I advocate the use of Acidulated Malt. Sour mashing is already done for you.

Warren -

[post="61621"][/post]​

I was under the impression that acidulated malt didn't really give you the souring quality required, only adjusted the PH of the mash. Or can you confirm otherwise from personal experience that it does give similar results?

Anyone else got some thought's here?

Regards

Borret :blink:

 

[Darren]

Borret,I don't think the acid malt is sour mashed. I think it is sprayed with acid.
You certainly wouldn't want the flavours often associated with sour mashing in a light crisp pilsener
No harm in using in a wit though

 

[warrenlw63]

Yep,

Primary use is to lower mash pH. Malt is sprayed with lactic acid. Chew a few kernels of this malt and you'll realise how it gets its other name Sauermalz.

Borret. It's very nature is to lower mash pH. Lower pH means acidic. I usually add about a kilo of this stuff per 40 litre batch of Wit. Proabably wouldn't use any more.

You'll detect it's flavour. The amounts I use aren't overpowering but they are noticeable.

Warren -

 

[Weizguy]

Warren,

So if I do it a week or so before, and chuck it in the freezer to stop progress when it's good and bring it out the night before brewday it should all work smoothly? Will the portion mash actually taste quite sour/ tart at this point or will the smell be a better tell tail?
I don't have anything to test PH with but the lab at work may, but I doubt it. If they do I might do a bouble sour batch and split it for later use.

Cheers

Borret

[post="61617"][/post]​

Borret,

My Berliner weisse was soured by a portion of the sour mash. It had been in the freezer for a while, and was well sour.

Freezing may affect the bacteria, but will not remove the lactic acid that has already been produced...
BTW mine didn't smell too filthy, but I guess that maybe I'm more tolerant than most.

Gave some of the sour Berliner to a wheat farmer and he couldn't stomach it. Didn't even taste it. Reminded him of rotten wheat.

Seth

 

[Borret]

So the whole batch tastes like you haven't cleaned the mash tun for a week or is it different? I'm not sure that's desirable. Might build the sour mash and decide once I see how it turns out. Or I'll try adn get some acidualted malt between now and then.

Cheers

Borret

 

[Chad]

I take it that once mashed in wort is not strained off the grain, and no sparging takes place with this minimash...

This never got answered, so is it correct. Just leave everything in there for the souring, then dump it all into the final mash?

 

[Jye]

This never got answered, so is it correct. Just leave everything in there for the souring, then dump it all into the final mash?

Yes thats correct.

 

[Weizguy]

So the whole batch tastes like you haven't cleaned the mash tun for a week or is it different? I'm not sure that's desirable. Might build the sour mash and decide once I see how it turns out. Or I'll try adn get some acidualted malt between now and then.

Cheers

Borret

As I never answered this one at the time, and considering that someone revived the thread...

No, Borret, the whole batch doesn't taste like you haven't cleaned the mash tun for a week. Those flavours are extreme, and would include some lacto and acetic flavours, as well as many others such as polyamines (chloriney, fishy, yucky).

The beer produced from a small sour mash has the sourness of a plain/natural yoghurt, which is more tart than sour.

You can always top up with straight lactic acid (in small amounts) if the tartness is underwhelming or unbalanced.

Any more questions.
Beerz
Seth