Time For A Sour Mash?

[Weizguy]

So, the fam is away for 2 weeks.
It's prob the best time for a sour mash. :blink:
I hope to make a soured Summer ale for quaffing (of course).
Anyone want to suggest % grist. I hear 5-10% is suitable.
Is a soured Berliner Weisse out of the question, or a Wit?
Let me hear ya say "Yo".
Prob go quite well in a soured smoked stout.
Well, that's my 4 fermentors accounted for.
Anyone want to convince to brew something else?
All replies welcomed!
Happy brew year :chug: :chug:
Seth

 

[Doc]

Haven't done it myself but if I was going souring then Berliner Weisse would be my choice of brew.
Family gone for two week, mate brew up a storm. Double, triple decoctions, sour mashes, three hour boils ...........
I can get a pantry or kitchen prepped and painted plus 3+ AG brews done in two days. It all comes down to planning and multi-tasking.
Check out this topic

Beers,
Doc

 

[Doc]

Also check out this topic to order yourself some cheap fermenters.
They arrive a day late for me to do a 4 AG brew day, but they were still A-Grade and a great price with a hassle free transaction.
I don't know if anyone has ordered off him lately, but I hope he is still in business.

Beers,
Doc

PS: No affiliation or anything blah blah blah blah ..........

 

[Weizguy]

Thanks Doc,
Do U mind if I adopt U as my (online) mentor?
Do U have any Berliner Weisse recipes? I have the one from BYO mag.
I've done a few multi-brew daze, but usually including at least one extract brew. Must fit in with the family, U know.
Seth out

 

[Doc]

Do U have any Berliner Weisse recipes? I have the one from BYO mag.

Sorry Weiz, I don't have any experience brewing one, just drinking them.
I see them as a challenge to brew, and while I like to have the odd Berliner Weisse there is always other styles ahead of it in my palet queue to master.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Weizguy]

Gonna try the BYO recipe. Good session beer at 2.6% alc.
Do U think that I could refrigerate some of the sour mash for later use? Surely it won't get contaminated, now that the lactobacillus have control.
In an old Ausbeer mag, Eric Young reckons that 3 daze @ 50C is the right time to sour a sample. Blue fuzzy stuff on it etc...
I'll go and buy some malt for the Weisse and Wit tomorrow. Mark's home brew is open tomorrow U C. He was closed Friday as he was painting the shop, but will be open on Monday.
Prepare for lactobacilli to assume control of my house.

Sethule

 

[Doc]

Go for it Weise, and post pics.

Beers,
Doc

 

[Weizguy]

Sour mash is now @ Day 2. Startiing to get a little smelly, but still gotta get close to detect it. I might leave it for 4 daze. Then we won't have chase the spiders and vinegar flys out of the house. Those little buggers love brew rooms.

Have already started 2 brews. The whimsical Coke Poorter, and another APA with hops in stock and a bit extra from the brew shop - all Cascade. (oops, I lied, there is Willamette mixed with Cascade for flavour).
The APA is a pm brew with 500g Vienna (in stock) and some English crystal (200g) and some dark munich (100g). Mash 90 min at 66-67 C, to ensure full conversion,...etc. It's for the Superbowl get-together, and I'm also making a wheat. Will prob take 1/2 doz Wit too, coz the host likes it.

Seth rambling on. Settle now, Bubby. Anyone recognise the quote? :wacko:

 

[Weizguy]

Well, the sour mash has been going for 4 daze now. It's not getting smelly, and it's not getting mouldy or crusty.
It does smell like mushy baby porridge that's gone a bit sour, though.
It's been sitting at 50- 54 C in a hot water bath, which I think is right. 570g pils malt, with enough water to cover it only.
Will divide it into 2 lots this arvo, and place in freezer until I have a day off, and then it will go into the 2 mash brews (Wit and Berliner Weisse) when I brew them.
Photos later today. Not much to see. So prob just 2 photos.
Seth out

 

[phantom]

Seth rambling on. Settle now, Bubby. Anyone recognise the quote? :wacko:

Bad boy bubby,bad boy.don,t gladwrap the cat

 

[Weizguy]

Bad boy bubby.

Yep, and the movie was made in Adelaide. The whole town feels like that. Some don't like it. I find it attractive.

Been to Adelaide a few times. Only place in Oz where U can get Bali belly. Well, maybe not , but I got sick there once due to the water. Mostly drank great beer and, sicko that i am, liked the green death - Southwark Pale ale. There is no accounting for taste.

BTW, my sour mash is in 2 ziplocks in the freezer. Doesn't smell real sour, and a can't taste it b4 I boil it, I'm told. though I nearly failed in resisting temptation.

I reckon the Berliner is first tomorrow. ag and cloe to a mini-mash. Should work well with a batch sparge. We shall see. I have wheat malt and pils malt and Spalter and sour mash and German ale yeast , I think.

I'll get back to you when I start.
Got a hoto of the sour mash bbuut it never got really stinky or mouldy. Maybe its the local acetobacter. Find out when I brew.

Seth out, and have a brewlicious weekend.

 

[Weizguy]

OK, so it took me a while to get to this.
Berliner weisse...
According to BYO mag, I should start the mash at 35-38 C for an "acid and hydration rest" for a minimum of 2 hours. So I did, and then I read further along in the article that some German brewers "let the mash rest overnight". So that's what I'm doing to increase the phytic acid and hopefully let my sour mash (from the freezer) work on the entire grist.
Didn't post the sour mash pix coz there was nothing special to see. No blue mould, no fuzzy stuff, no odd appearance, just a small vessel containing a thick mash in a larger vessel ; double boiler-type setup.
If the beer's not sour enough after a week, I'll order some Lactobacillus Delbruckii and inocculate the wort with it.
I'll taste the wort as it goes into the fermentor, and check for acidity.
Before pitching the yeast, I'll reserve about 2 litres of wort for later use as krausen (food for the yeast, to produce carbonation).
Hope to be able to report some worthwhile data soon.
Seth

 

[kook]

The traditional german breweries not only leave the mash to rest, they dont boil the wort!

Hops are added to the mash to provide a small amount of bitterness, and an ale yeast is used.

Very strange beer, a lot like a young unblended lambic.

 

[Weizguy]

Have just done the protein rest at 50 C, and just about to add water for the main mash @ 64C...done (and wrapped the esky in mylar bubblewrap 4 insulation
The wort is plenty sour though, and will become moreso with time in the fermentor.:blink:
I'll be adding Spalt (12.5g @ 4.5AA) and boiling for 15 min. Will use German Ale yeast
I look forward to my "people's champagne".
Much happier now. Yum
Seth

 

[thehipone]

Mostly a curiosity,

would acidulated malt get you a close approximation of what you get from a sour mash? or is there something else going on too?

 

[Darren]

I did a sour nash a year or so ago. It is so sour now that it could take the enamel off your teeth.
Reminds me I was supposed to give some to you chiller!

 

[Gulf Brewery]

thehipone

The sour mash gives a lactic tang where the acidulated malt will only drop the pH.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[Weizguy]

G'day thehipone,
I'd say it's a matter of degree. The acidulated malt is produced naturally, too. I could've used it, but was informed at my lhbs that it's cheaper and easy enough to make your own. So I did.
There is probably a greater amount of acidity this way. But, in this style, the acidity can vary a lot, so it's not out of style.
The flavour tends to differ from a separate lactic acid addition, as it will need time to blend in. A sour mash should blend more quickly and the lactic bacteria will create a drier beer as they eat the remaining sugars after the yeast has had it's fill.
Would love to see how this beer gets rated in a competition.

Hey, I can now say that I've done a sour mash!
Seth out

 

[Weizguy]

The Weisse was pitched with Wyeast German ale at 24C and will go into the fridge at 17-18C. OG is 1.030 at 19 litres volume.
The tang is not overpowering, but is assertive already. Hope the yeast culture and ferment temp keep the sourness down.
We shall see.
I still have some sourmash in the freezer for another beer. I might split it between the Witbier and a tangy Summer ale.
Seth

 

[Weizguy]

The weisse was cooled to 10C for 2 days before bottling with 2 litres of reserved wort (speise).
The 2 litres wort was initially removed before the yeast was pitched. It was boiled and cooled in a sealed container in the fridge, then stored in the freezer until bottling. When thawed, it was full of lumpy porridgey bits and I had to strain it through a sieve to add it to the wort for bottling.
This all happened about a week ago. :beer:
Now I just have to wait for about 3 months (I read in BYO), and consume at fridge temp of 10C (maybe with raspberry syrup). :beerbang:
There is a lot of sediment (about 1 cm) in the bottles. Could not produce a clear wort after vorlauf. Recirculated for about 20 min, and decided to boil it all anyway.
Tips for next time?
Seth :chug:
BTW, today I am not making a sour beer. Instead a Fuller's London Pride clone (grain with sugar - recipe from "Brew your own Real Ale at Home". Last 30 min of boil now.