The People's Beer

[Pollux]

Ahhh, VB drinkers, they will only drink VB, Carlton Draught drinkers however will drink nearly anything, except VB...

I can recall this being the case when I used to work in pubs, the same people would drink the same beer in the same style glass (we had 3 types of schooners and 4 types of middie) everyday, no-one ever changed, except when the sterling tap got replaced with Carlton Draught, then our sales of New dropped.

I can remember when my choice of beer was made by price, this saw me drink ALOT of Bavaria a few years back as it could be had for either $10 a 6pk or $30 for a case, while local beers were hitting 15/45.

Brand loyalty is a big thing in the alcohol world, much the same as it is in tobacco sales, it's all about creating an identity to go with the product.

 

[Katherine]

Ahhh, VB drinkers, they will only drink VB, Carlton Draught drinkers however will drink nearly anything, except VB...

I can recall this being the case when I used to work in pubs, the same people would drink the same beer in the same style glass (we had 3 types of schooners and 4 types of middie) everyday, no-one ever changed, except when the sterling tap got replaced with Carlton Draught, then our sales of New dropped.

I can remember when my choice of beer was made by price, this saw me drink ALOT of Bavaria a few years back as it could be had for either $10 a 6pk or $30 for a case, while local beers were hitting 15/45.

Brand loyalty is a big thing in the alcohol world, much the same as it is in tobacco sales, it's all about creating an identity to go with the product.

so right.... some people go to the pub daily it's a habit they go to the same pub and drink the same beer sit with the same people. They don't want to change. Why would we want to change them. Some of my good friends are just like that (I ran a Bistro next to a sportz bar were I drank LCPA out of a bottle or Stella from the taps)....

When I go to a pub I go to different ones, but if I go to Creatures Ill drink the (pale ale), sail and Anchor ( IPA), Northfolk, (Trummer), Clancys Fish Pub, (LCPA or Trummer).... So my tastes are pretty straight.

We call them mega swill but there session beers. I could not stomach pints and pints of Chimmay or Leffe Blonde espeacially in Western Australian sun.

 

[reviled]

I could not stomach pints and pints of Chimmay or Leffe Blonde espeacially in Western Australian sun.

Id give it a go with Leffe, definately NOT with Chimay Blue h34r:

 

[PostModern]

so right.... some people go to the pub daily it's a habit they go to the same pub and drink the same beer sit with the same people. They don't want to change. Why would we want to change them. Some of my good friends are just like that (I ran a Bistro next to a sportz bar were I drank LCPA out of a bottle or Stella from the taps)....

When I go to a pub I go to different ones, but if I go to Creatures Ill drink the (pale ale), sail and Anchor ( IPA), Northfolk, (Trummer), Clancys Fish Pub, (LCPA or Trummer).... So my tastes are pretty straight.

We call them mega swill but there session beers. I could not stomach pints and pints of Chimmay or Leffe Blonde espeacially in Western Australian sun.

I would want to change them to redirect some of their beer money into smaller operations that are struggling in the current beer market in order to ultimately increase the diversity of beer available to all. That's my selfish take on it. Less selfishly, I'd like to see everyone drinking better made beer, ie quality beer made for taste rather than for a price, riddled with adjunct and hop extract. Same as I would like to see more diversity of just about everything I consume.

Your pints of Chimay in the sun is a straw man. There is a time and a place for all styles. Strong trappist beers were never intended to be session beers.

 

[Katherine]

I would want to change them to redirect some of their beer money into smaller operations that are struggling in the current beer market in order to ultimately increase the diversity of beer available to all. That's my selfish take on it. Less selfishly, I'd like to see everyone drinking better made beer, ie quality beer made for taste rather than for a price, riddled with adjunct and hop extract. Same as I would like to see more diversity of just about everything I consume.

Your pints of Chimay in the sun is a straw man. There is a time and a place for all styles. Strong trappist beers were never intended to be session beers.

Yeah that would be nice! but maybe a little unrealistic, these are people that probably go home and eat meat and three vege every night. They won't change...

Though you can look around a pub these days and see people drinking different styles of beers and not just VB, unfortunatly it seems to be Corona or Pure Blonde! But then Little Creatures is packed pretty much daily and they don't sell anything else but softdrink and wine so as you know there is a market there and it is slowly changing.

I do understand that strong trappist beers are not meant for sessions. The people's beer Im thinking is a session beer. I would like to broaden my tastes with Australian made craft beers but were do I go to get it? Our bottle shops branch out occassionally and when they do there English or Belguim style beers. Living in Western Australia we miss out on alot of Australian Craft Brews due to shipping costs. :icon_cheers:

 

[BoilerBoy]

Its interesting to me that in europe alot of wine is drunk watered down so as to make it an everyday or meal beverage, heck even the kids often drink it!yet this isn't done out of ignorance, they still know and appreciate decent wine and you wouldn't neccesarily here them saying my watered down wine is "THE BEST WINE" its just whatever suits the occasion.

I think what the issue is wirh beer and Australians is "Market driven ignorance" Its not that drinking tasteless crap is wrong, its just believing that its the "very best beer".

The marketeers of swill have been remarkably clever in aligning their brands as a patriotic cultural ritual, a form of popular loyalty devoid of the issue of taste.

The recent announment of Coopers to make Bud is really only symptomatic of the fact that they need to tap further into this gold mine of ignorance.

People of course are free to drink what they want, but the misinformation turns people into both perpetraters and victims of parochial stupidity!

BB

 

[Katherine]

Id give it a go with Leffe, definately NOT with Chimay Blue h34r:

A pint of Leffe Blonde :icon_vomit:

 

[schooey]

My take on it is that we are all debating something that will never change; Human diverstity

I imagine that I am like a lot of others here, grew up in a culture where your old man and your old mans mates worked hard all day and came home and had a beer. Like all the other things that were in grained into you, so was that. I can remember having my first taste of beer and hating it, all bitter and blech.... But I drank it because thats what all my mates drank.

It took me a few years to question myself (probably in my early 20's) as to whether I drank it because I liked it or because I was just fitting in. I think at that time I resolved to the fact that I had transitioned from the latter to the former in those couple or five years that I had been drinking it, and was happy with the fact that I did drink it because I did enjoy the taste of it, as well as the culture.

I also remember at that time, trying some imported beers, as well as some other local beers and hating them. I drink Toohey's Draught, mate it's what I grew up on and it's the best... Then moving to Sydney from the bush to go to Uni, my eyes were opened to a whole world of new cultures and beers. I let my mind open and explored different tastes... It was an exciting time

I think as we progress in this life, some of us are lucky enough to expand our minds and explore new things. Others experience a change in tastes and what they once thought was great, they now think is crap and vice-versa. Others are lucky enough to find happiness in routine. Some are just ruled by the almighty dollar... I could go on all day, you get the picture

So yeah, it's a diverse world. Some will be lured by this little marketing thing that Jase was on, some will want to defy the almighty marketing machine and make a stand against the big capo mega brewers, its all diversity. But these mega brewers are here for a reason, they have a market to service and it's not shrinking that quickly.

Anyway, I am happy to say I don't mind being in the minority in this case, I enjoy craft brewed beer immensely, and if it's available, I'll choose it over a massed produced product. I'm also happy to stand tall and say I can still enjoy a schooner of New, or Carlton when I'm thirsty. Sure it doesn't taste anything like the craft beer I enjoy, but I am not going to not drink it just to fit in because all my craft brewer friends are chanting "mega swill sucks, down with the mega swill" when I know I will enjoy it. I played that game in reverse in the first paragraph...

Diversity: It's the game of life...

 

[caleb]

Your pints of Chimay in the sun is a straw man. There is a time and a place for all styles. Strong trappist beers were never intended to be session beers.

Of course it is... and not a very good straw man either - stuffing is falling out left right and center... yet this argument ALWAYS comes up in the end.

The irony is that American/Australian "standard lager" is not, in my opinion, even the best thirst quencher/session beer after a hard days work "drivin' a plow, or milkin' a cow". As a matter of fact, if I've gotta "have one now" I'd prefer something like a good bitter pale ale (LCPA) or perhaps a wheat beer (wit or weizzen), one of the many summer ales like JS Golden. Even a decent all-malt pilsener with reasonable bitterness is more invigorating on a hot day than the mega-swill, which is sweet, bland, and smells and tastes bad once it starts to warm up in the glass. (Plus if it's a CUB product, it has that 'dirt' taste which is hardly refreshing.)

Perversely, cases of Carlton Cold and co, continue to walk out the bottle shop door in the middle of winter when it's freezing cold and everyone is rugged up. Maybe the buyers think the ice and snowflake on the box signify that it's a winter seasonal beer!

 

[PostModern]

Living in Western Australia we miss out on alot of Australian Craft Brews due to shipping costs. :icon_cheers:

Living on the East Coast, we miss out on a lot of the great craft beers being made in the West! Beer should be a local thing (national supermarket brands aside).

A diversity of local beer is great. It will promote more styles evolving, eg Steam Beer on the West coast of the US. Local beer doesn't have 1000s of kms of shipping built into the price. It doesn't waste energy moving the beer miles from its production source. Mega breweries are onto that in some ways, eg making Tooheys in Qld and SA for the local market, but weirdly, opposite to it in other ways such as brewing JSGA in Adelaide and shipping it back to Sydney. I mean, what's with that? I'd be quite happy to drink Highgate in Melbourne, Moo in Tassy (is it?), Feral in WA, and so on. Sure, I'd miss those beers when I got home, but I can live with that. I'm not saying no beer should ever travel, but I don't often buy cases of Chimay or Unibroue or Svyturys, etc, so I'm prepared to pay a little more for the odd out-of-town or international treat.

National brands are like McDonalds. Supposedly consistent from place to place, but as boring as white bread. As I see it, it's all about the conglomerations of corporations, seeking to squeeze every last dollar out of every bit of capital they have. Fighting in our consciousness for market share in order to achieve this goal. Good beer is not what they're after. Sales are. Whatever they have to do to make and maintain sales is what they'll do and we're all the poorer for it.

So yeah, it's a diverse world. Some will be lured by this little marketing thing that Jase was on, some will want to defy the almighty marketing machine and make a stand against the big capo mega brewers, its all diversity. But these mega brewers are here for a reason, they have a market to service and it's not shrinking that quickly.

I'm happy to diversify in this way. But the market for megabrew is shrinking, at least the market for "Premium" beer is growing. I think the stats compilers don't make a distinction between small brewed craft beer and Crown Lager, tho, so the share of the Lion is still probably about the same. However, we'll chisel away at that, converting the megalagah drinkers, one palate at a time.

 

[Jase71]

Perhaps the issue of stangnant choices amongst Aussie guys' drinking habits can also be attributed to the lack of variety at the pub. Whilst the local suburban pubs aren't going to stock too many imports or tasty locals, even some of the 'club-style' pubs (does that make sense?) are badly lacking in the decent beer department. You have your standard tap fare, and a couple of 'imports' like Heinekin, Stella, Becks, and that's about it. So if the product simply isn't there to try, this would surely have an impact on whether someone might take a wild stab and go for an unknown, better beer.

Of course, this doesnt apply to every pub, a lot of inner-Sydney places around Glebe & Newtown can be found to stock some great beers - as I discovered last night, the 'wine-bar' down the road from my house (and Im a long way from the city) has Little Creatures on the menu - but it would be nice to see some craft beers in the pubs, and promoted/marketed well, not just sitting in a knee-high fridge behind a can of tomato juice.

For the record, I'll drink VB or Cralton Draught if I have no other choice, but I find that I cant get past about two schooners, and in the past if I had around four in a night, I would have a crappy headache the next morning... when I started drinking Peroni those same years ago, I noticed that this didnt happen (unless I went home after ten of them, followed by ten wild turkeys LOL).

 

[MarkBastard]

Jase that's a very good point that's often overlooked. Goes the same with bottle shops too.

 

[PostModern]

Comes back to transport and distribution. Easier for pubs to deal with one or maybe two suppliers, who will be either under contract to, or completely owned by a major brewery. Until the independents get their act together and organise distribution collectively, they're facing a tough battle for recognition, I reckon.

 

[Jase71]

Comes back to transport and distribution. Easier for pubs to deal with one or maybe two suppliers, who will be either under contract to, or completely owned by a major brewery. Until the independents get their act together and organise distribution collectively, they're facing a tough battle for recognition, I reckon.

I would disagree with that. I can think of three areas in Sydney where the Craft Brews are specifically delivering to for the bottle shops, yet the pubs aren't stocking the stuff. In one case a 'fashionable' pub with hardly any decent beers is across the road from the BWS, who stock a heap of imports and some craft locals.

On further thought... these beers might be devivered stright to the central BBWS warehousing & distribution centre though, and they truck it to the stores themselves...... but anyway, there's other cases where independant bottleshops are going to be near pubs. It would be easy enough to incentivise the bottleshops to act as a holding pen for beers that could be picked up by the pub's staff. IF the Licensee gave a **** about some variety. (my partner is working on her boss, the local licensee to get a keg of Squire in, but I'll bet it sits there untouched! It's only just breaking out of it's blue-collar clientele, so I reckon it will be ignored by most if there's not some really good in-house promotion - and a price that equals that of VB)

So many of the pubs are owned by high-flying industry syndicates, I wouldn't be surprised if they give the instruction to the licensee to actively black-ball products that dont directly boost their share portfolio value in the grog industry.

 

[PostModern]

I would disagree with that. I can think of three areas in Sydney where the Craft Brews are specifically delivering to for the bottle shops, yet the pubs aren't stocking the stuff. In one case a 'fashionable' pub with hardly any decent beers is across the road from the BWS, who stock a heap of imports and some craft locals.

On further thought... these beers might be devivered stright to the central BBWS warehousing & distribution centre though, and they truck it to the stores themselves...... but anyway, there's other cases where independant bottleshops are going to be near pubs. It would be easy enough to incentivise the bottleshops to act as a holding pen for beers that could be picked up by the pub's staff. IF the Licensee gave a **** about some variety. (my partner is working on her boss, the local licensee to get a keg of Squire in, but I'll bet it sits there untouched! It's only just breaking out of it's blue-collar clientele, so I reckon it will be ignored by most if there's not some really good in-house promotion - and a price that equals that of VB)

I was thinking along the lines of a hotel wanting to stock say 10 different micro's beers. They would have 10 invoices, 10 deliveries, ten sets of prices to set, etc, compared to the one keg truck arriving, loading and pissing off which supplies 90% of their sales.

Obviously there are some pubs that give it a go and bring in some micro beer, but I think the number would be greater if "Independent Beer Distributors Pty Ltd" rocked up once a week right behind the Linfox truck and stocked the place for them, and left a single invoice.

So many of the pubs are owned by high-flying industry syndicates, I wouldn't be surprised if they give the instruction to the licensee to actively black-ball products that dont directly boost their share portfolio value in the grog industry.

This is probably true too. Thank goodness for the small bar licensing simplification laws in NSW, hey?

 

[Pollux]

I would disagree with that. I can think of three areas in Sydney where the Craft Brews are specifically delivering to for the bottle shops, yet the pubs aren't stocking the stuff. In one case a 'fashionable' pub with hardly any decent beers is across the road from the BWS, who stock a heap of imports and some craft locals.

PoMo is right, pubs like to receive TWO invoices for beer, one from Lion Nathan, the other previously from CUB (now trading as Fosters Group)....

That's the way it's been for years, and in NSW (at least this was the case 3 years ago when I was running pubs) the only way you could get something as "exotic" as Coopers Pale Ale was through someone like HLW (Hotel liquor wholesalers) and most of their trucks are full of bottles of spirits/RTDs

Back then we had 5 lots of invoices

Lion Nathan
CUB
Coca-cola Ltd
HLW
Our wine supplier (forgotten the company name now)

Any beer that didn't come from LN or CUB came through HLW at a higher price than the potential cost if we purchased straight from the supplier, but with beers like these not selling quickly, we never met the minimum quota to get free delivery, so it was just easier to order it with the spirits.


Just a little insight from someone who has actually worked in the industry.


EDIT: Jase, just noticed your partner is working on her boss, the local licensee.....She doesn't work at the concord hotel does she?? That was the first pub I ever worked at in Sydney.

 

[Jase71]

No, not the Concord Hotel. God that place is STILL awful (Ive been living in the area for about four/five years, and this pub seems to get worse with time).

Good points raised about the inventory management.. I suppose the key point here is having independant distros that can get the product into the pubs for a great price. OR send sales reps out with a uteload, and they can target two or three pubs, deviver some stock (lets face it, turnover wouldnt he huge at a VB-Centric pub) and get some serious marketing paraphanalia in the door (posters, promotional prizes, all taht sort of ****). ANYTHING to get the beers in the pub, I reckon.

Pure speculation only, I know SFA about the industry.

 

[Jase71]

EDIT: Jase, just noticed your partner is working on her boss, the local licensee

LOL, and she doesn't like Squire enough to do what was implied by that sentence !

 

[Pollux]

Not quite the intent there.....I think you have something on the mind....

As for independent distro's, they do exist, I have had some experience with them in the past.

They offered me beers like TsingTao and a few others at prices cheaper than I would be paying for CD or VB in cases.....provided I bought 50 cases at once....

I simply ran beer of the month promo's and what I couldn't shift, I took home to drink.