The Crush

[Darren]

Something that had me thinking,

How important is the crush. Do homebrewers crush too little? Can you crush too much? Does it matter?

cheers

Darren

 

[NRB]

Did you start this topic in order to start a 20 page thread Darren??

My personal take is that the crush isn't as important as many things in the brewing process, so long as the enzymes readily contact the startes contained within the husk. Obviously too coarse and the contents aren't exposed, too fine and the sparge becomes very difficult. I think once you've got a consistent crush you can determine your efficiency and create any beer you want.

 

[domonsura]

Yes you can crush to much - relative to how well your system/gear works (ie: how fine can you go before you get a predictable stuck sparge)
and if you don't crush enough - well......you don't get proper conversion or all the sugar in my experience.

As with all things, some of us take it a little more seriously than others. Personally, I'm happy with anything from a reasonably coarse crush through to quite floury, but then my false bottom is quite forgiving
I've tasted your beer. i think your crush must be OK.......

 

[goatherder]

Where my brewing is sitting at the moment crush is way down the bottom of the list of importance. I'm far more interested in the variations caused by ingredients, water, mash pH, mash schedule and yeast management than by the crush. I have a Barley Crusher which is still set on the default gap setting it shipped with. One of these days I might close it up to see what happens. It might be a while though, I'm happy enough getting reasonably repeatable 75%ish efficiencies to want to do anything much about it.

 

[sah]

If we could make it work I would think a flour consistency crush would be most efficient. Obviously that makes for a pretty good glue too. Not to mention the compounds in the husks that we'd rather leave be.

I have been trying to crush a bit finer recently. Unfortunately it's not the last variable I haven't got complete control of.

regards,
Scott

 

[bugwan]

I'm a big coffee fan and the grind of a given coffee bean is critical to the quality of the resulting espresso (and by extension, the latte, cappuccino etc). The same strict rules don't quite apply to the home brewer, as our equipment and techniques vary so much.

Until I decide on a preferred supplier of grinder/crusher/roller, I just assume that Grain & Grape are crushing effectively! In some ways it's quite trusting to rely on a retailer who, no doubt, leaves the crush at a standard measurement for all customers, but then again....I'm reassured by the fact that the staff at G&G are experts in their field. So until I can organise (but most importantly, afford) a mill, they can happily do the job.

Interesting question Darren. We've never met, but I've come to the conclusion that you are a very accomplished and successful brewer. I'd like to hear more about your thoughts on the crush etc too. They're worth more to this thread than my ramblings!

I've been working late into the night watching videos like : that are great fun. Great ideas for motor/mill ratios and mounting ideas too.

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Everyone has their own "perfect"crush. Too fine and you risk not having husks to filter the wort and too coarse and the same problem. The biggest hassle with the home brew mills is that the tend to crack the grain and split the husk into pieces, where the flat faced roller mills that micro's use don't do that as much. I have seen where the crush is not as good as it could be (too fine or too coarse) and small pieces of grain continue to flow into the kettle (great for a wit, but that is another thing). While the crush of your grain is important as any of the other things in the process, you need to get it "just right" for your setup, so that you get bright clear wort from the mash to the kettle and what is perfect on one system, maybe so so on someone elses.

SAH - If you want to crush to near flour, then you need something like this mash filter. If you have a couple of $m spare cash, let me know and I will help you get one (for a small fee, of course).

Cheers
Pedro

Edit: PS - I use a Valley Mill for my homebrew batches

 

[Zizzle]

Are you look to start the No Crush Method there Darren?

 

[Barry]

Good Day
I like the no crush, no mash, no boil method. I call it the "grain in the bag".

 

[Cortez The Killer]

My understanding is that all else being equal, the finer the crush the better the extraction.

Of course too fine a crush will lead to a stuck sparge

But from what I've read large breweries just about pulverise their grain to achieve maximum extraction.

Recently I adjusted my mill (don't mention the marga... i mentioned it once but i think i got away with it) so that the crush was finer and this increased my efficiency from 75-77% to 79-81%

I also added a "falsie" bottom to my tun - however I don't think this can account for the change in efficiency as I batch sparge.

Personally I believe that while other factors can affect efficiency like mash pH, temp, salt additions etc - all things being equal - the crush can significantly alter efficiency.

I remember reading somewhere that brewers should crush as finely as possible - while still avoiding stuck sparges

Cheers

 

[Darren]

I am wondering about extraction of tannins. How can breweries crush the malt then "squeeze" every last drop out of the mash without extracting tannins?

The other thought I hve about tannins is do they help to get clear beer? Could they actually be beneficial by helping the drop the "chill haze".

The only time i have had a stuck sparge was when I used >50% wheat or rye so I reckon the crush should be in the finer side than course. Certainly there should be NO full kurnels in the mash.

just my thoughts

Darren

 

[Stuster]

I am wondering about extraction of tannins. How can breweries crush the malt then "squeeze" every last drop out of the mash without extracting tannins?

Darren, I believe the reason is that the extraction of tannins does not occur at any significant level below a pH of 6. I think that you're right that crusher finer is the way to go. Crush until you're scared is what I've read.

 

[Lukes]

2 more factors to consider:
The depth of the mash in home brewing compared to commercial set ups.
Size of the barley corns, say marris otter to galaxy.

Luke

 

[SJW]

Are you look to start the No Crush Method there Darren?

Don't laugh, we need to get Keith the beer guy involved in this, he has a theory passed one from Scott I think about have a very coarse crush and floating the mash. I ain got the balls to try this but I would love to hear more about it.

Steve

 

[milpod]

Well Darren,I crush till it scares me.

But me using such an inferior "mill",probably doesn't count

So I'll leave it open for the real pro's

Cheers

 

[Pumpy]

Just as a matter of interest when i went to the Hook Norton brewery in the UK they had a MALT DRESSING MACHINE for sorting each grain before crushing so the machine could be set differently for the smaller grains

pumpy

 

[milpod]

Thank god,I hate crushing wheat

 

[Whistlingjack]

The best crushing method would have to be "wet milling"

Spraying the malt with water to attain the desired strike temperature, then passing it through smooth rollers. This has the effect of producing a fine crush without affecting the husk and therefore reducing the risk of a stuck sparge. The starch granules are effectively encased in a wet and warm package that won't pass through the false bottom.

Another advantage is that enzymes are activated before mash in.

But, as mentioned before, mash filters are the best way of getting maximum yield. Crush all the malt into a fine powder, without the worry of a stuck sparge.

WJ

 

[milpod]

So Wj unauthorised beta,acid rests

 

[johnno]

This is what I just crushed up for today's brew.

I hid all the uncracked grains so Darren would not see them. The whole 120 of them.

cheers
johnno