The Cheese Thread

[TimT]

Hey you got results, so good for you!

Sounds like you didn't acidify the milk enough first go, as you suggest. Usual instructions are 'if the milk hasn't clearly separated into curds and whey after a few minutes add some more lemon juice (or vinegar or whatever acid you're using)'. Either that - or didn't heat up to around 95 degrees C as is common for paneer/ricotta, etc?

 

[TimT]

I had a shocker the other day trying to make haloumi with nettle rennet.... no matter how much nettle rennet I added it didn't work*. So then I tried heating up to make ricotta.... I'd obviously somehow stuffed up the milk though, because I kept adding more vinegar and didn't get much separation of curds and whey at all.

In the end I strained it out and got a lump of horrible, salty, grey-looking curds. I put them in my fridge and ignored them for a week hoping they'd go away before throwing them out....

*Thanks to the brilliant researchers on this very site, later I worked out my problem was probably that the way I'd tried to make nettle rennet destroyed the active enzyme.

 

[OzPaleAle]

Made a creamy blue today, used a starter collected from a raw milk Roquefort from a cheese shop, separated the 2 cultures on agar plates and used them to inoculate a starter, not sure about dosing rates doing it that way however.
hate paying $30 odd for the 8L of unhomogenised milk though, gotta get around to finding an alternative source, makes a big difference from the homogenised milk though. Just have to wait a few months to find out the result.

 

[OzPaleAle]

Some of the cheeses I have on the go at the moment, Left is a 2 day old blue, front is a 2 month old swiss, the other 2 are 2 month old parmesans.

 

[wobbly]

Can you use Star San to sanitise your cheese making equipment or is it necessary to soak everything in Milton?

I have been told to be careful not to use any sanitiser that contains both Sodium Hypochlorite and sodium Hydroxide (which according to the label Star San doesn't)

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[TimT]

Apparently some cheesemakers do use Starsan. Mostly I just boil what I want to sanitise.

 

[AndrewQLD]

An acid based sanitizer is fine for cheesemaking,

 

[TimT]

I've read some cheesemakers just use vinegar.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Proxitane is used in the dairy industry would imagine would be fine for cheese, not made any yet but hopefully will get around to it.

 

[seehuusen]

What a fantastic thread!

I bought the missus some cheese making gear, and she wants to make cams and hard cheese.
I'll see what she thinks about perhaps making your Blue cheese Andrew, looks SUPER yummy (I love soft blue cheese)

 

[Bomber Watson]

Spent the last few nights reading the thread first post to last.

I want to make cheese.

LHBS sells Mad Millie kits, and stocks all the various odds and sodds.

Is it worth just going Mad Millie so all the stuff is available easily and locally, or is there a far better product out there?

Cheers.

 

[TimT]

A cheese kit is a good start as usually you get a whole bunch of important stuff in the one kit instead of having to buy them piece by piece. Some of the MM kits look pretty good - I'd just make sure you get all the essentials, ie, cheese culture, rennet, cheese salt (non-iodised salt), cheesecloth, and a cheese press with follower and mold. Chat to folks at the cheese shop about it. Most of my stuff was originally from a kit (not MM, a different variety), and I haven't had a problem with it.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

These guys are well worth a look

http://cheeselinks.com.au/

 

[Bomber Watson]

Yes Stu, I saw them, and sussed the site out.

As i said, i read the thread front to back .

As i asked though, is there gear that superior to the MM stuff that i should just go full mailorder, or is there not that bigga difference and I can look at buying the localy available stuff.....

Honestly trying to suport the LHBS as much as i can, but the amount of things i get from them are decreasing as they have a reasonably small range...But they do have cheese stuff....

Edit, seen a lot of your posts, good to see theres a few other Pastafarians on this site.

What model duke do you have?

Sorry bout the Hijack.

Cheers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

A mash tun is really good for making cheese in. Nice and insulated.



There are some really good recipies on here

http://www.cheesemaking.com/recipes/recipedetails.html

You can get everything over here.

 

[OzPaleAle]

Found this Youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLxvyTB_m4VcFYiNNhWnwAA

 

[TimT]

A mash tun is really good for making cheese in. Nice and insulated.


I just whack a pot in the sink! Running hot and cold water means I can keep it exactly the right temp.

 

[wobbly]

I have made a couple of batches of "Farm House Cheddar" and have the basics under control

What I want t do now is see if I can replicate the "Mersey Valley Sharp and Crumbly Classic Vintage Cheddar"

Any advise on how to get that flavour and texture would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[TimT]

Age.

 

[TimT]

Ah, I see - yes, the Farmhouse Cheddar recipe is the 'quick' version. It makes a nice crumbly cheddar that has flavour that will improve with age but to really get the full cheddar flavour you need to use another, slightly more complicated, recipe. Look up 'traditional cheddar'.

Basically you have to go through a process of cheddaring - you drain fresh curds in a colander. They'll stick into one another. Then you cut them up into slabs. You put these slabs back into the pot (which you've drained of whey) and keep them at a constant temperature of around 37 degrees celsius. Flip 'em every 15 minutes. They'll keep on expressing whey (drain it off regularly), becoming quite dry, acidifying and gaining more flavour as the lacto-bacilli gets stronger and produces more and more lactic acid from milk. After a couple of hours, the curds will no longer be soft and mooshy but will have a texture like chicken flesh.

Then you tear the curds apart again, salt them, and pour them into a cheese mould and press them together under weight.

This last bit is probably the trickiest part of the process, because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get them to stick together after all that (they're not quite so adhesive as fresh curds). The trick is to maintain a warm ambient atmosphere, over 30 degrees celsius. Some cheesemakers recommend putting the cheese press back in the pot and keeping the pot in the sink so you can control the surrounding temperature with water. You might do it over the top of a hot oven, too. And you can warm the cheesecloth you pour the curds into and sterilise it at the same time by chucking it 15 minutes before in boiling water. (Body temp ought to do it, too, so you could probably provide a nice temp to the curds by just placing your hands round the cheese mould).

Anyway, point is, by keeping it at a warm ambient temp you can persuade the curds to stick to one another and get a good clean knit. Result: a good block of cheddar cheese!

Rikki Carroll's Traditional Cheddar recipe can be found here. Maybe you have one of your own! Once you've mastered the cheddaring process, you'll be able to do several related recipes - Leicester, and Derby Cheese. All good stuff. You'll really taste the difference - Farmhouse cheese is good, but the taste of traditional cheddar is one another level.

 

[TimT]

This last bit is probably the trickiest part of the process, because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get them to stick together after all that (they're not quite so adhesive as fresh curds). The trick is to maintain a warm ambient atmosphere, over 30 degrees celsius.

Actually this all makes me think that the perfect time to make a cheddar might be a hot summer's day. In the middle of the day, when the temp is pushing 30 inside, might be the best time to end the cheddaring process, to salt the curds, and then to press them together lightly until they knit.

The drawback from this, of course, is that then you're going to have to age the cheese. I do all mine at room temp but summer temps are just too hot - cheeses and cheese bacteria like a nice cool 10 - 15 degrees. If their temps are around 30 they start weeping and sweating. Of course, if you have a fridge you use for fermentation, that can easily be turned into a cheese cave.

 

[wobbly]

Other than a fermentation fridge (which I don't have anymore) what other options do people use for a "cheese cave"?? And how do you maintain the humidity at around the 85%

Cheers

wobbly

 

[pk.sax]

Other than a fermentation fridge (which I don't have anymore) what other options do people use for a "cheese cave"?? And how do you maintain the humidity at around the 85%

Cheers

wobbly

I do mine in my williamswarn machine. Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture.

Ymmv

 

[TimT]

I don't use a fridge so I just make cheeses at the right time in the year. Temps are pretty good for a lot of cheese making in Melbourne in the depths of winter.

Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture.

'Special milk powder'? You mean... using powdered milk to which you add water when you're making cheese? Why would you do that? Milk is at its best when fresh, unpasteurised, and rich and creamy, with nothing taken out. The more stuff has been done to milk before you get to make cheese with it, the worse results you'll get.

 

[wobbly]

I do mine in my williamswarn machine. Fully automatic pressure ripened cheese, he recommends using his special milk powder and premixed culture.

Ymmv

Good to see you living up to your username as usual

Wobbly

 

[HBHB]

Spent the last few nights reading the thread first post to last.

I want to make cheese.

LHBS sells Mad Millie kits, and stocks all the various odds and sodds.

Is it worth just going Mad Millie so all the stuff is available easily and locally, or is there a far better product out there?

Cheers.

Nothing wrong with the Mad Millies stuff at all. Works fine for those of us who use it.

Martin

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its really your cultures and moulds that make the cheese...bit like yeast and beer.

You can make it in anything you like, but if your nain ingrediants are ****, you end products will be ****

 

[Bomber Watson]

Nothing wrong with the Mad Millies stuff at all. Works fine for those of us who use it.

Martin

THanks mate, thats what i was chasing.

Next trip there i will suss the gear out properly and see what i wanna get

Cheers.

 

[welly2]

Just ordered myself some cheese making gear from Green Living Australia. Bought an Italian cheese kit (Mozzarella, Parmesan, Provolone and a few others) and a hard cheese kit (Feta, Farmhouse Cheddar, Colb, Monterey Jack, Gloucester etc.). Seems to come with everything I need but only query is whether I'm going to need a cheese press, particularly for the hard cheese? Or perhaps that's something I could pick up at a later date?

 

[paulyman]

Wow, just found this topic. Will read through over the next couple of days.

I already have a wine fridge to cellar my wines, might be able to fit some cheeses in there if I can work out a way to up the humidity, a sistema or something similar with a small cup of water in it perhaps.