The Cheese Thread

[bradsbrew]

Aged at 3C, they will take forever to get to the right consistency. Maybe not forever, but anywhere up to a year. You're better off aging them at 10-12C for a couple of weeks to get the ball rolling, then when they start to feel a little soft, put them in the fridge to slow the aging process.

Hmm should have rechecked this thread sooner.

brad thats a bloody brilliant idea Ive got a large waeco just siting in the garage doing nothing. Couple of questions..

Do you use a hygrometer at all? Do you think the humidty level is ok in the waeco using a wet cloth in the bottom of the container? I assume so as there is no fan in there to dry out the air.

Do you use an STC1000 with the waeco and will it control the temps no problems? (I know with some of those digital thermostats on fridges they re-set to a higher temp when the power is switched off and back on again.)

I just put them in the container i got with the kit, had moisture in the container. Did not check humidity. As for temp control, I put a measure only probe into the waeco and set the fridge temp accordingly.

 

[bradsbrew]

Well its not looking too good. As you can see there is a bit of mould, it has the blue/green mould and some big lumps of white mould. It is more of a hard cheese and tastes between cream cheese and edam. Only had a little taste but had quite a nice flavour.

When storing I just wrapped it and put it in a container without a lid.

 

[benno1973]

Well its not looking too good. As you can see there is a bit of mould, it has the blue/green mould and some big lumps of white mould. It is more of a hard cheese and tastes between cream cheese and edam. Only had a little taste but had quite a nice flavour.

When storing I just wrapped it and put it in a container without a lid.

Did you let the white mould grow for about 10 days before wrapping? Doesn't look like there's any white mould on the surface?

 

[Truman42]

well i finally had a go at making a blue today. Not as much work as making beer but certainly takes just as long

Heres my double boiler setup just a pot with bolts that sits inside my 18 litre urn. (My father in law gave me that urn and I did my first brew in it as a BIAB and was using it for my HLT. My missus is very sentimental and I recently made a HLT from a keg so I'm glad I was able to use the urn for something else.)



Heres the curds and whey



And here is my maturation box with the cheese draining which I will move to my fridge tomorrow morning.



Was easier than I thought and hopefully it will turn out ok in a few months time.

 

[Batz]

I must have crack at this sometime, a friend brought around some homemade Feta the other day and it as awesome. Quite easy to buy milk straight from the dairy up this way, that's what all the local cheese makers do.

Batz

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I must have crack at this sometime, a friend brought around some homemade Feta the other day and it as awesome. Quite easy to buy milk straight from the dairy up this way, that's what all the local cheese makers do.

Batz

Illegal in NSW to get it from the dairy farmers direct...... -_-

 

[hbnath]

Thats a bit rough DS?!! We have to join a cooperative/club...basically signing a waiver...then can buy locally through a vendor. Been waiting to have some leftover milk at the end of each week, but we drink all six litres each week it tastes so damn fine and creamy. Might have to up our weekly order so I can try some cheese making

 

[Batz]

Illegal in NSW to get it from the dairy farmers direct...... -_-

Same here, but you can buy a $10.00 share in one cow and then you can pay the farmer to look after and milk your cow. You don't pay for the milk as it's yours from your cow, (and it's legal to drink fresh milk from your own cows) the payment is for the farmers time only and you pay this when you collect your milk.

 

[benno1973]

Truman - what recipe are you following? Most I've seen age at room temp for the first 4 days, flipping the curds twice a day. After 4 days, it should look slightly blue/green, and then it goes into the ageing fridge. Your recipe is different I guess, just curious as to what recipe you're following. Did you use a commercial blue culture or a piece of blue cheese to innoculate?

 

[bradsbrew]

Did you let the white mould grow for about 10 days before wrapping? Doesn't look like there's any white mould on the surface?

There was a small layer of white mould which seemed to have dissappeared. I had it in the maturing box for a couple of weeks at 11 deg before putting in the food fridge. There was moisture in it each time I flipped it, I just drained the container each time. Should I have put a lid on the container when I put it in the fridge? I kept the lid on when I had it in the maturing container. Oh well might just throw these ones and try again.

 

[Truman42]

Truman - what recipe are you following? Most I've seen age at room temp for the first 4 days, flipping the curds twice a day. After 4 days, it should look slightly blue/green, and then it goes into the ageing fridge. Your recipe is different I guess, just curious as to what recipe you're following. Did you use a commercial blue culture or a piece of blue cheese to innoculate?

Im using the recipe that came with the mad millie blue cheese kit I brought.

It says the next morning to remove from the moulds and lightly sprinkle with salt then to put in the maturation box or fridge at 15C. Then turn each day for three days and salt it. After 3 days poke 40 holes from top to bottom then age at 10C. So i suppose 15C isnt that cold and could be done outside of a fridge in winter anyway.

I used the flora danica and roqueforti that came with the kit. But it was bloody hard to scale down to my volume. The satchets are for 8 litres but the recipe is for 2 litres and I doubled it so used 4 litres of milk. It said to use 4-5 grains or 1/4 satchet of flora danica but it was a fine powder. I ended up pouring it into a yeast vial and weighing it then just working out how much 1/2 a satchet would be (for double the recipe quantity)

 

[benno1973]

There was a small layer of white mould which seemed to have dissappeared. I had it in the maturing box for a couple of weeks at 11 deg before putting in the food fridge. There was moisture in it each time I flipped it, I just drained the container each time. Should I have put a lid on the container when I put it in the fridge? I kept the lid on when I had it in the maturing container. Oh well might just throw these ones and try again.

I put a lid on my container, and just prop one of the corners open. This keeps the humidity up but allows for some air exchange.

First 10 days is in the container with the lid propped open, and after about day 4 you can see white mould forming. Each day after this I (with clean hands) wipe the mould across all faces of the cheese with a finger, which disperses the mould and also flattens it down. At around day 10 when the mould is pretty much covering the cheese, I wrap them and keep them in the fridge (no container) for another couple of weeks.

 

[benno1973]

Im using the recipe that came with the mad millie blue cheese kit I brought.

Oh, sure, that's fine. I thought you might just be making them and popping them straight in the fridge. 15C is fine to start the blue culture.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

FYI cheesemakers

Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.

One of the biggest problems I've faced is knowing how much rennet to use in my cheesemaking, because I make cheese on such an occasional basis that my rennet is always old and the recommended amounts in the recipes never work very well.

The cheesemaking books talk about rennet tablets (not junket tablets) as an alternative..... but despite keeping an eye out for a few years I hadn't spotted them from any Aus supplier. Until I recently bought some lids for my fowlers jars through Ozfarmer that is.

Ozfarmer has nice rennet tablets with a stated shelf life of 36 months. They are in terms of litres coagulated per dollar, a much more expensive option than liquid rennet - but as an occasional cheesemaker, being able to have rennet that I can rely on is worth the extra cost.

Hopefully useful to those AHB cheesemakers who hadn't yet discovered these handy little tabs.

TB

http://www.ozfarmer.com/food-preserving/cheese-making

 

[Truman42]

Thanks TB might have to check it out. Ive had my liquid rennet since last year and didnt realize it has a poor shelf life. I kept it in the fridge but I suppose its probably not going to be any good for my second batch of cheese.

My curd hadnt set after 45 mins and even after an hour still wasnt as hard as I expected it to be. Could this be due to the rennet not being fresh enough?

 

[Truman42]

Heres my cheese the next morning with the moulds removed prior to salting. Seems very moist still. Does this look about right or should I be leaving my box lid open a bit to let it dry out?

 

[bradsbrew]

I would be doing as KS suggests Truman, leaving the lid corner open. I think that is one of the areas I went wrong with mine.

 

[donburke]

FYI cheesemakers

Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.

One of the biggest problems I've faced is knowing how much rennet to use in my cheesemaking, because I make cheese on such an occasional basis that my rennet is always old and the recommended amounts in the recipes never work very well.

The cheesemaking books talk about rennet tablets (not junket tablets) as an alternative..... but despite keeping an eye out for a few years I hadn't spotted them from any Aus supplier. Until I recently bought some lids for my fowlers jars through Ozfarmer that is.

Ozfarmer has nice rennet tablets with a stated shelf life of 36 months. They are in terms of litres coagulated per dollar, a much more expensive option than liquid rennet - but as an occasional cheesemaker, being able to have rennet that I can rely on is worth the extra cost.

Hopefully useful to those AHB cheesemakers who hadn't yet discovered these handy little tabs.

TB

http://www.ozfarmer.com/food-preserving/cheese-making

are these any different to junket tablets ?

 

[benno1973]

FYI cheesemakers

Most of the cheesemaking supply places I have seen stock essentially the same range of ingredients and equipment - one of which is bacterially derived vegetarian rennet. Which as luck would have it doesn't have a magnificent shelflife.
...
http://www.ozfarmer.com/food-preserving/cheese-making

Thanks TB. I didn't realise the shelf-life issues with vegetarian rennet. Up until now, I've been using liquid rennet (presumably calf derived rennet, as it doesn't specify otherwise on the pack) that's at least 3 or 4 years old, and it's been working fine. But it's running out, so I ordered vegetarian rennet the other day. I'll have to keep an eye on how it sets.

donburke - Cheese rennet is 80% chymosin and 20% pepsin. Junket is 80% pepsin, so it is much weaker than rennet.

Truman - For blue cheeses I've always drained the curds, crumbled them into small pieces, salted them and then moulded them (without pressing). This allows for the curds to mat with airpockets between them, which allows for better mould formation inside the cheese. You're not doing that, but poking holes in the cheese will allow for some mould to enter. Anyway, the curds look a bit moist so I'd leave the lid ajar to let some moisture out. The blue culture doesn't need too much moisture to form at this stage, but you also don't want the cheese to get dry and crumbly, so prop the lid open for a day or two.

 

[Truman42]

I would be doing as KS suggests Truman, leaving the lid corner open. I think that is one of the areas I went wrong with mine.

Yeh will do. Im using one of those small storage boxes so just put a wedge on one side so the lid has a small air gap.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I understand that calf rennet has much betterr shelf life than vege rennet..... and its not that the stuff stops working, its just that it loses potency and so you never know whether the amount you used is what you intended....might might still coagulate, but different recipes use differing amounts of rennet, presumably for a purpose. So if mine is only x% and i dont know what x is - how much is the right amount?

I dont like that sort of uncertainty in anything I do

Donburke: Is it the same as junket tablets?? Not by my understanding. I believe they are both more potent and made of a differing ratio of chymosin to pepsin than are junket tablets. Basing this off limited "internet information" though - so it could be hooey.

 

[Truman42]

Ive just been looking at a recipe for Camembert and one of the ingredients is a Camembert/mesophilic culture/ mould blend.

I assume this is the same thing as the roqueforti and flora danicum used in blue cheese but already blended together (and obviously suited to Camembert).
So would it be possible for me to use the flora Danica starter culture I already have to make a starter culture and add some Camembert cheese for the "Penicilium candidum" needed in Camembert? I've read that you cut off a small piece of the white rind and mix with a small amount of water then pour in the water when adding the starter culture?
Kaiser you mentioned using cheese to innoculate is this what you refer too?

 

[benno1973]

Truman - yep, exactly. For blues, I have a roquefort culture but generally I take a teaspoon sized lump of my last batch of blue, mix it with water into a paste and add it to the milk. You can do the same with camembert I understand, although I've never tested it out. I can confirm that mixing it with water an dspraying it on salamis does produce a white mould rind, so yes, the white mould is definitely viable this way.

If you were to do it, I'd suggest that you use about a teaspoon sized lump of camembert and blitz it in a food processor with 1/4 cup water or milk. Then add it to the cheese and proceed as per usual.

 

[capretta]

i used to do it, but i kept experimenting with smaller amounts until it got unreliable and the heartache wasnt worth it for me anymore. a teaspoon was more than i ever used so would give you a strong starter i would guess with very little chance of failure.. but ymmv!

 

[Truman42]

Thanks gents. So I assume this will also work with any commercial camembert cheese? (Kasier you say you used a lump from your last batch of blue)

They dont add some sort of preservative or something like that to commercial cheese that would make this not work???

Do you guys make a starter culture at all? My mad millie cheese kit instructions said to just mix the mesophilic culture with some milk and pour it in. But Ive been reading about making a starter culture the day before.
I suppose its the same thing as throwing in a packet of Wyeast into a brew or making a 2 litre starter on a stir plate and pitching at high Krausen.

 

[benno1973]

I've used moulds from lots of commercial blues, there's no preservative or anything that you need to worry about, they're all live cultures.

With camembert, I do make a starter culture, but generally it's more to assess the viability of the culture. It tends to set a little like yoghurt, and then you can sit it in the fridge until you're ready to make the cheese. Saves me spending all that time making the cheese only to find that the starter culture was old and didn't do anything. I'm currently using a pack of culture that's nearly 4 years old, so it's pretty necessary!

 

[Truman42]

Cheers Kaiser thanks for that will give it a go.

 

[Truman42]

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.

 

[benno1973]

Any of you guys done 2 different cheeses and matured them in the same fridge? I would like to do a camembert this weekend and I still have a blue in my fridge. I was going to put them in seperate containers.

Seems there are mixed opinions on the forums Ive read as to if this will cause cross contamination or not.

Aging blue requires a pretty high humidity (90-95%), so I keep the blue in a sealed container. I keep the brie in a container with the lid propped just open. The recommendation is to air the blue out every few days. Just remove it from the fridge, open the container and leave it at room temp to air out for an hour or so, then seal it back up and return to the fridge.

To be honest, I haven't been airing my blue and it's looking and tasting just fine. I guess it gets and airing out when I flip it every few days.

 

[capretta]

cross contaminate for beautiful blue and white children. cheese purity be damnned!