pretty sure you could cherry pick some pretty hateful/violent passages out of any religious script if you wanted to... doesnt make them accurate to how todays 'followers/believers' interpret them (or ignore them)Batz said:
Terrorist Killings in Paris
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Zephaniah 1:7:18Batz said:
Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth.
Just one of the many lovely passages from the Bible. I tend to lean towards the Marquis de Sade for my fill of fictional debauchery.
if you don't know them, then you haven't read the bible so probably shouldn't be picking apart other faiths booksBatz said:
Therefore I'll give you the 'easily digested' buzzfeed version
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/7-shocking-bible-verses-you-probably-wont-hear-in-church#.kc9BVgKwG
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rennerlarson/quran-or-bible-most-people-cant-tell-the-differ-1haar
Thank fck I'm left handed.Ducatiboy stu said:No No No No No. it is a sin, says this lot
https://www.facebook.com/Christian-Mothers-Against-Masturbation-1560660604170522/
christian mothers.JPG
Dave70
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Me to. Certainly I hope they dont require any of the potentially near miraculous therapys that could have been realized in the field of embryonic stem sell research that lost over a decade of development due to methodist moron GWB withdrawing government funding - "My position on these issues is shaped by deeply held beliefs,” he said. “I also believe human life is a sacred gift from our creator."Batz said:
Neither islam nor Judaism hold this point of view. The sacredness of the human zygote is an expressly christian concern.
Who's making a contribution to our collective knowledge?Hmm....http://en.europenews.dk/Nobel-Prizes-4-Muslim-vs-129-Jewish-Contributions-to-the-World-78229.html
Nick the Knife
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It's a very complex but at the same time very simple subject area - in short, ISIL are just the latest in a very long line of organisations humans have formed to perpetrate horrendous acts upon other humans. And alas if history has shown us something about such oriented organisations religion is disproportionately represented as a core part of their 'justification'.
Such groups always preport to commit their acts based upon x, y and z basis that justifies it - and religions have always been very good for giving them a flexible/user friendly rationale that can be peverted to meet their ACTUAL justification to the maleable plebs & marginalised folks they pray upon.
The actual goal both for ISIL and all those similar groups that have come before them through the centuries is simply POWER....as everything else stems from that....wealth, control, influence, etc etc etc.
So religion in it's true sense and Islam has NOTHING to do with ISIL - they're just hijacking it as a cloak/cover/vehicle to pursue their evil (sounds dramatic but is true) agenda.
Other than the first hand victims the real tragedy of their actions (and it's definitely something as an earlier poster said - that they do DELIBERATELY) is that they end up tarring/affecting the 99.999% of muslims who feel ISIL are a lunatic fringe that has nothing to do with their religion. The knock on effect is that a lot of non-muslims look at the situation too simply and assume 'All muslims are bad' and thus end up marginalising folks which CAN drive a small % of folks into the hands of the nutbag fringe.
Their 'long game' is that they want to divide the world into a 'us or them' situation (sadly and ironically much the same as the USA tried to do with their infamous "You're either with us or against us speech by GwB).
So as a staunch Agnostic (slowly sliding to Atheist) I'd urge any readers of the thread that whilst it's great to 'not let them win' by no longer travelling etc BUT it's also and more covertly exactly what they want to try and have moderate and appalled Muslims persecuted/vilified for ISIL's crimes and thus driven into their arms.
PS. Think about it for a second, it's the year 2015 and just like for the past couple of thousand years we're still killing, raping and doing untold horrific sadistic acts on our fellow man PURELY because these folks look, sound, eat or live differently to us. Un-pharking-believable.
PPS. Alas many Western countries foreign policy (think the colonial powers + the USA) is very often deep at the heart of many of the global conflict & disfunction issues. Thats in NO WAY a justification for them but the 'raping' of other countries (which has historically generally been white folks screwing over anyone NOT white) is a mess that shows no signs of being cleaned up.
ISIL need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice and I've zero doubt they will be much quicker than THEY'D like to think - but hopefully in doing this the powers that be won't end up perpetuating another vicious circle of hatred by not having a very targeted and appropriate response.
Such groups always preport to commit their acts based upon x, y and z basis that justifies it - and religions have always been very good for giving them a flexible/user friendly rationale that can be peverted to meet their ACTUAL justification to the maleable plebs & marginalised folks they pray upon.
The actual goal both for ISIL and all those similar groups that have come before them through the centuries is simply POWER....as everything else stems from that....wealth, control, influence, etc etc etc.
So religion in it's true sense and Islam has NOTHING to do with ISIL - they're just hijacking it as a cloak/cover/vehicle to pursue their evil (sounds dramatic but is true) agenda.
Other than the first hand victims the real tragedy of their actions (and it's definitely something as an earlier poster said - that they do DELIBERATELY) is that they end up tarring/affecting the 99.999% of muslims who feel ISIL are a lunatic fringe that has nothing to do with their religion. The knock on effect is that a lot of non-muslims look at the situation too simply and assume 'All muslims are bad' and thus end up marginalising folks which CAN drive a small % of folks into the hands of the nutbag fringe.
Their 'long game' is that they want to divide the world into a 'us or them' situation (sadly and ironically much the same as the USA tried to do with their infamous "You're either with us or against us speech by GwB).
So as a staunch Agnostic (slowly sliding to Atheist) I'd urge any readers of the thread that whilst it's great to 'not let them win' by no longer travelling etc BUT it's also and more covertly exactly what they want to try and have moderate and appalled Muslims persecuted/vilified for ISIL's crimes and thus driven into their arms.
PS. Think about it for a second, it's the year 2015 and just like for the past couple of thousand years we're still killing, raping and doing untold horrific sadistic acts on our fellow man PURELY because these folks look, sound, eat or live differently to us. Un-pharking-believable.
PPS. Alas many Western countries foreign policy (think the colonial powers + the USA) is very often deep at the heart of many of the global conflict & disfunction issues. Thats in NO WAY a justification for them but the 'raping' of other countries (which has historically generally been white folks screwing over anyone NOT white) is a mess that shows no signs of being cleaned up.
ISIL need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice and I've zero doubt they will be much quicker than THEY'D like to think - but hopefully in doing this the powers that be won't end up perpetuating another vicious circle of hatred by not having a very targeted and appropriate response.
Dave70
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"So religion in it's true sense and Islam has NOTHING to do with ISIL - they're just hijacking it as a cloak/cover/vehicle to pursue their evil (sounds dramatic but is true) agenda."
Its pointless however to deny that the scriptures of a religion have a profound influence on its adherents. The most fanatical and devout are always the ones who adhere most literally to the words of their relevant texts. And the ones that promise the eternal reward, be it a harem of virgins or 'a room in my father's house' and grizzly damnation for 'transgressors' that have the most blood on their hands. Thats no coincidence.
Even by default peaceful religions like Buddhism (though not strictly a religion) can be contorted by the influence of shintoism and its mandate of honorable sacrifice to produce the atrocities like Kamikaze pilots - the original suicide bombers.
No matter how elastic the interpretations of religions like Jainism or Hinduism, there is simply no way to explicate jihad, inquisition, pogroms or holy war from the pages.
Stalinism and Nazism had nothing to do with religion either, but everything to do with men usurping the role of gods. Both had their relevant texts, martyrs and demagogues. The system works.
Its pointless however to deny that the scriptures of a religion have a profound influence on its adherents. The most fanatical and devout are always the ones who adhere most literally to the words of their relevant texts. And the ones that promise the eternal reward, be it a harem of virgins or 'a room in my father's house' and grizzly damnation for 'transgressors' that have the most blood on their hands. Thats no coincidence.
Even by default peaceful religions like Buddhism (though not strictly a religion) can be contorted by the influence of shintoism and its mandate of honorable sacrifice to produce the atrocities like Kamikaze pilots - the original suicide bombers.
No matter how elastic the interpretations of religions like Jainism or Hinduism, there is simply no way to explicate jihad, inquisition, pogroms or holy war from the pages.
Stalinism and Nazism had nothing to do with religion either, but everything to do with men usurping the role of gods. Both had their relevant texts, martyrs and demagogues. The system works.
wide eyed and legless
Well-Known Member
Religion itself has been used by countless fraudsters for there own ends, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and countless other Evangelists and misbegotten religious sects in USA.
Joe Stalin's vehicle was fear, while Adolf fanned the embers of a spark deep within us all, racism, at the same time pushing the, "Master race" theme.
Back on the IS Obama has predictably spoken to his civilian and military advisers, (who according to him are the best in the world)
and has been advised not to put boots on the ground.(Phew)
Interesting now how Russia and France will move, I doubt very much whether the, "Human Shield" would work with the Russians collateral damage is part and parcel of war according to Putin.
Joe Stalin's vehicle was fear, while Adolf fanned the embers of a spark deep within us all, racism, at the same time pushing the, "Master race" theme.
Back on the IS Obama has predictably spoken to his civilian and military advisers, (who according to him are the best in the world)
and has been advised not to put boots on the ground.(Phew)
Interesting now how Russia and France will move, I doubt very much whether the, "Human Shield" would work with the Russians collateral damage is part and parcel of war according to Putin.
