Temp Control Solenoid

[puffer555]

Hi Guys,

I have been looking at setting up a temperature controlled solenoid for my gas burner.

After looking around I have found these:
http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/PartDetail.a...art_no=01099706
Combustion rated solenoid up to 40 kPa, 3/8", and 240 V.
Apparently, they are only $147, whichis much cheaper than I thought.

The class 2 solenoid for pressures up to 350 kPa is also the same price.
http://www2.blackwoods.com.au/PartDetail.a...art_no=05311130

My low pressure reg is rated at 2.5 kPa so the class 1 solenoid should be fine.

I also plan to setup a pilot safety valve with thermocouple to ensure safety if pilot ever goes out.

What do yo guys think?

Tim

 

[kirem]

I went down this path before I went all electric.

my suggestion is to source a gas hot water combination solenoid. It will have the flame detect and other safety features you need, find one that has piezo electric start or HSI.

View attachment 33562

 

[Zwickel]

Im using a gas solenoid for my automated gas burner like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-8-Electric-Soleno...=item2ea987c68a

 

[puffer555]

Im using a gas solenoid for my automated gas burner like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-8-Electric-Soleno...=item2ea987c68a

Oh yeah !! They look ok.
10kg/cm^2 equates to 980 kPa.
You would need a 12V DC transformer though.

I'm not that sure about an ebay purchase from China however.
You can't be sure of the quality and even the ebay description (max pressure, gas rated etc.)
Not to mention they're possibly not AS compliant.
Especially considering we are dealling with gas safety.
Anyone else had experience with these solenoids?

 

[Zwickel]

Oh yeah !! They look ok.
10kg/cm^2 equates to 980 kPa.
You would need a 12V DC transformer though.

you may get that valve with different coils, just ask the seller. I bought a similar valve with an 240V coil.

I'm not that sure about an ebay purchase from China however.
You can't be sure of the quality and even the ebay description (max pressure, gas rated etc.)
Not to mention they're possibly not AS compliant.
Especially considering we are dealling with gas safety.
Anyone else had experience with these solenoids?

these valves are used for central heatings over here and for MIG/MAG welding as well.

what is good enough in our central heating in the cellar of our house, should be good enough for the home brewery as well.

:icon_cheers:

 

[komodo]

would be very interested in seeing how you put this together - the idea interests me but I have no plumbing / gas fitting experiance and I dont know where to get information

 

[Zwickel]

would be very interested in seeing how you put this together - the idea interests me but I have no plumbing / gas fitting experiance and I dont know where to get information

are you talking to puffer555 or would you like to see mine?

 

[komodo]

Ive seen a bit of yours some time ago Zwickle - would be interested in having another look though!

 

[Zwickel]

Ive seen a bit of yours some time ago Zwickle - would be interested in having another look though!

okay, I dont want to hijack puffers thread, but it may be, hes also interested in to see how Ive solved some problems.

Ive posted my story a while ago in the Homebrew Forum in UK:
http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/viewtopi...430&start=0

If someone has further questions, feel fre to ask more

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[komodo]

Thanks Zwickle
Puffer still interested in how you tackle this also!

 

[puffer555]

I intend to set mine up similar to the "brutus ten".
This video gives the basic idea:

If you watch the whole playlist (i.e brutus ten 2, brutus ten 3, etc), you may get a better idea.
The only thing else I would incorporate would be a pilot safety valve.

This is the basic idea:
The pilot flame on the burner is lit at the start of the brewday.
My 23 tip mongolian burner already has a pilot valve built in.
A pilot safety valve is incorporated into the gas suply that ensures the pilot flame remains lit.
If the pilot goes out (wind or something), the gas supply is cut.
A temp controller reads the temp of the mash, and turns one of the above solenoids on or off, which controls the burner.
The mash is constantly recirculated to ensure temps in the mash are uniform.
Good positioning of the temp probe should ensure no temp overshoot.
Mash temps shouldn't vary by more than a degree, which should help with consistency.
Should mean step mashes, single infusion mashes, mash outs etc will be a breeze.
Just set the temp on the controller and it ramps and regulates it for you.

 

[Zwickel]

puffer, your plan certainly will work. As long as you can guarantee that the pilot flame keeps burning, that will be a reliable system.

I have made many experiments with pilot flames and I came to the conclusion, that pilot flames are very unreliable (in my own system), blown out by wind and also when the burner get switched off.

I dont know wether or not its a specific occurrance of my burners; everytime when they get switched off (gas solenoid valve shuts) there was a little deflagration (low-speed detonation) that blows out the pilot flame. The consequences were, I couldnt leave the burners alone, always had to lighten the pilot flame again. Maybe that is caused by the sudden stop of the gas flow. When Im going to turn down the gas flow at the regulator, there is no such occurrance.

Thats why I was searching for another solution. Could be, your burners are completely different to mine, so you wouldnt have this problem.

Cheers mate :icon_cheers:

 

[alexbrand]

I use exactly the same technique Zwickel has buit. It is very reliable and becaus of flame detection it is save - as long as you install the electric circuit carefully.

Some picture I put on Picasa: http://picasaweb.google.com/u1300l/Hobbybrauen#


Cheers,

Alex

 

[technocat]

Oh yeah !! They look ok.
10kg/cm^2 equates to 980 kPa.
You would need a 12V DC transformer though.
I'm not that sure about an ebay purchase from China however.
You can't be sure of the quality and even the ebay description (max pressure, gas rated etc.)
Not to mention they're possibly not AS compliant.
Especially considering we are dealling with gas safety.
Anyone else had experience with these solenoids?

I have been using one of these 1/2" solenoids for water control into my HLT and it works well. In the specs that Virtual Village give it is rated at 2W which is not the case. I found that mine draws 1.2 amps at 24V which is more like 29 Watts so you would need a tranny with a bit of grunt. I have a number of these rated at 2.5 amp out of ex pinball machines so it wasn't a problem. I have been looking at the 12V 3/8 version for gas control and zwickel says it works ok for him so I guess they are worth a try. At 50 bucks including P&P out of China thats a good deal by comparison with the Australian offerings.


View attachment 33576


:icon_cheers:

 

[Zwickel]

...... In the specs that Virtual Village give it is rated at 2W which is not the case. I found that mine draws 1.2 amps at 24V which is more like 29 Watts so you would need a tranny with a bit of grunt. I have a number of these rated at 2.5 amp out of ex pinball machines so it wasn't a problem. I have been looking at the 12V 3/8 version for gas control and zwickel says it works ok for him so I guess they are worth a try. At 50 bucks including P&P out of China thats a good deal by comparison with the Australian offerings.

yes, that is true, the power consumption is more toward 10 to 20 watts, the 230v-valve I have, consumes 12.5 Watts and the 24V-valve I have, draws 800mA equal to almost 20 Watts.

Beernut, could it be, that the coil of your valve is designed for AC and you have connected it to DC?

The coils of the valves are getting fairly hot, that irritated me at first, but everything works well so far.

:icon_cheers:

 

[alexbrand]

The coils of the valves are getting fairly hot, that irritated me at first, but everything works well so far.

Similar here. The 24V DC coil (electronic spunding valve) gets really hot but keeps working, the 230V AC coil (gas burner) just warms up a little bit.

Alex

 

[jayse]

I mananged to score two 240v ones with pilot light attachments after they fell of the back of a truck, using the standard three ring burner on bbq pressure reg the pilot light works quite well and is adjustable to produce a bigger flame if its windy.
It has gone out at times before but has not been a major drama at all.

I am not using them at home anymore but have incorporated one into a pilot scale brewery for a local microbrewery, mainly so I don't over shoot HLT temps whilst doing other things. Haven't tried it out yet but planning on using a 3 ring with a higher pressure reg on it to decrease the heating times.

Anyway I think those chinese ones should work nicely, looks like a genuine product and legitamate being that there are other brewers using them, not your so called gibson les paul fake made in china and worth no more then the same amount of fire wood type thing you get with some chinese ebay items.

 

[technocat]

Beernut, could it be, that the coil of your valve is designed for AC and you have connected it to DC?

The coils of the valves are getting fairly hot, that irritated me at first, but everything works well so far.

:icon_cheers:

Yes this could well be but the label on the top cap reads 24VDC The regulator which is a standard adjustable is working near its limit and although strapped to a heatsink generates a fair bit of heat. Next time I open up the control box i just might bypass the AC converter and try 24VAC. My rig capacity is only 60L so the solenoid isn't on for long as the the HLT doesn't take long to fill. It just saves me climbing up a ladder to do it manually. Automating your setup can be a lot of fun, time permitting and there seems no limits to how far you can go.


:beer: