Style Of The Week 19/7/06 Scottish Ale

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[Why not, according to some, it doesn't exist :lol:

Tennants, or at least their precursors, opened their first dedicated lager brewery in 1888. Not the first in the UK, but probably the first to be met with real success. Personally I feel it is a style the Scots have yet to master.

I agree, the uber lagers are a blight on the social fabric. Hard to get off carpet fabric too, especially when they come bouncing back in a technicolour yawn :eek:



:super:

Lover of what I call a Scottish 80/-

Batz
 
Growing up in Wales, the main beer I drank was Brains SA. On trips to Scotland I had numerous pints (mainly of heavy) and found it substantially different to the beer I was used to (and bloody enjoyable too I may add :chug: ). On trips to the Lake District I had several pints of Old Peculier and found myself lying in a ditch. :p On trips to the south-east of England I found the beers hoppier and lighter in colour than those I was used to. Then at uni and living in the Midlands I found a range of local beers, with milds still popular (as in Wales) but also hoppier beers like Banks Bitter. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are definitely regional differences between beers in Britain, and I'm sure these differences were much greater in the past, probably down in part to local loyalty to a particular brewery.

The classification of these beers that has happened so relatively recently can be useful in some ways, but IMO it doesn't reflect the enormous range of beers that were made across Britian very well. And if Scottish beers have a different category, why not Welsh ones too? :lol:
 
I had a few good nights on the Brains in Cardiff. Beautiful beer in any man's language and definately different to other beers in other british regions.

The 7/9/06 West Australian had an article about Scotish beer and how they don't "burtonise" their water.

I find the scotish heavy to have a good alcohol taste that enhances the beer. I find a similar alcohol effect in Cooper's Sparkling. (Let me stipulate Cooper's sparking and Heavy are not the same style, quiet different infact)
 
I think what this thread's beginning to show is how flawed the BJCP guidlines are at describing historical and contemporary commercial brewing practices. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that these guidlines are a far more accurate description of American homebrew practice, and the misconceptions underpinning said homebrew practice, than they are a description of what's happening in the commercial realm.


Inevitably there has been some drift in brewing practices north and south of the border and each has influenced the other. Today, Pale Ales and Bitter excert some influence on Scottish ale. Hell if I was a Scottish brewer, I'd consider "Bittering -up" (is that a recognised phrase?) my products to defend my home patch from Southern imports and perhaps carve out a niche in the English market too. In the past, it was Scottish practice that influenced the English, I seem to recall reading somewhere that fly sparging is infact a Scottish practice that was adopted by the English.

If you also consider Scotland's long history of Brewing Bitter Pale Ales in much the same way as Burton on Trent (and some say that the Scots have been exporting pale hoppy ales longer Brewers of Burton) and one begins to realize that as a description of Scottish bewing practice, the guidlines are way off beam.

I also think that some beer writers (Mr Jackson comes to mind) have excerted far too much influence over those guidlines too. In fact, if Mr Jackson's furtive immagination had lead him to conclude that Tennant's long history of lager brewing amounted to a "tradition" and that its products are distinct enough (well Tennants lager tastes distinct to me) to desrve the term "style", then we'd all be debating the paprameters of Scottish Lager by now!

My favourite is always reading an American writer's attempts to explain the origins of the term "Bitter". It's really funny as they trawl through adverts, labels, books and so on trying to determine when the term first came into use. Never occurs to them that the best way to ensure you get a hoppy pale ale in a pub is (and probaly always was) to ask the publican for a "bitter ale", and so the term "Bitter" was probably in popular usage way before the breweries picked up on it as a descriptor of style. Sorry but I don't care if Ray Daniels thinks the term "Bitter" is a post WWII invention, I know my Grandfather was ordering "Bitter" in the 1930's and I'll bet my great-grandfather was doing the same before that.

And don't start me on Irish red ale! As far as I can see, the style exists to serve one purpose alone. What else could you serve in one of those horrible Irish theme pubs to a twenty something who's never had a stout in his life!
 
I think what this thread's beginning to show is how flawed the BJCP guidlines are at describing historical and contemporary commercial brewing practices. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that these guidlines are a far more accurate description of American homebrew practice than they are a description of what's happening in the commerical realm.

Hear hear! Couldn't agree more Locost.
 
Many traditional brew sites, including blighty, have a monastic influence.

No surprise there we know it is a devine hobby.

Also the hours of reflection are best past tweaking your latest brew recipe :)
 
I seem to recall reading somewhere that fly sparging is infact a Scottish practice that was adopted by the English.
I'm pretty sure that was actually Guinness.
I also think that some beer writers (Mr Jackson comes to mind) have excerted far too much influence over those guidlines too. In fact, if Mr Jackson's furtive immagination had lead him to conclude that Tennant's long history of lager brewing amounted to a "tradition" and that its products are distinct enough (well Tennants lager tastes distinct to me) to desrve the term "style", then we'd all be debating the paprameters of Scottish Lager by now!
Jackson has such an influence because he started the idea of beer styles!
 
I find aspects of this conversation becoming a trifle bizarre.

Methinks many people give the BJCP far too much credence in the "creation" of beer styles. Beer styles existed before the 1999 BJCP guidelines came out. And stylistic differences, broadly underpinned by historical and regional boundaries, existed well before American home brewers started to fill their mash tuns in earnest.

You can rest assured that the beer drinkers of Scotland where not waiting for Mr Jackson, or the beer Nazis, to tell them their most common, public bar, bevvies were substantially different from their average Sassenach counterpart.

The apparent inference that there is no general Scottish style, on the basis that contemporary Scottish brewers brew beers not to that style, is a furphy also. I have already acknowledged that fine Scottish Brewers like Caledonian and Harviestoun (now actually owned by Caledonian) produce beers that are superb examples of non Scottish styles, and have reaped the rewards of significant CAMRA recognition accordingly. That they market these beers under terms such as India Pale Ale and Bitter is, I would suggest, telling.

That these, and other Scottish brewers, also produce beers described under the shilling naming system, or as Scottish ale, heavy, export etc marks a clear differentiation between a stylistically Scottish beer, and a beer brewed by a Scottish brewer borrowing from, or emulating, other traditions.

If I can be forgiven a little book learning :D .

Writing in 1837, in his Scottish Ale Brewer and Practical Maltster, W H Roberts identified some key factors that differentiated Scottish brewing practice then, and which led to different qualities in the finished brews. Foremost amongst those differences were significantly higher mash temps, extended fermentation at lower temperatures (suggestive of the use of yeast with different characters and behaviour), and longer, cooler maturation periods. The use of the fly sparge was also a common feature of Scottish brewing at this time, though not so South of the Border. Roberts acknowledged the growing influence of English brewing practice on the Scots scene, and the increasing experimentation with other styles.

Even a cursory glance at Ian Donnachies A History of the Brewing Industry in Scotland will glean for the reader a sense of enterprising Scottish brewers consistently brewing beers for domestic and export markets. Experimentation with foreign styles, most notably lager, porter and IPA is a constant, as is the continued brewing of more domesticated Scottish ales.

At its most basic, a high quality bitter can be brewed from a relatively simple combination of pale ale and crystal malts, judiciously hopped. It is this relative simplicity and elegance that makes the English bitter style so frustrating for many a home brewer, there is little room for hiding faults. Check out the brewer provided information on the grists used for bitters in any CAMRA Real Ale Almanac . This holds true for the English style beers being produced by the Scottish brewers cited above. There is no yeast information given here, but I would suspect they have the same ready access to English Ale yeast as the home brewer now has.

If you look at the grain mix for the 70/, 80/ and Scottish ale styles, you will see a far lesser reliance on crystal malts, and an consistent incorporation of darker, black and roast grains. Add to this mix a different mashing regimen and the use of historically specific Scottish yeast, it is no surprise that a different and distinctive beer style emerges :p .

Not fantasy. Not the invention of the BJCP. Go on, Save up, get your self to a bar like the Abbotsford in Edinburgh and sample a few pints. Then tell me that I am the one who is dreaming.

If you can, that is. ;)

Rant over,

awrabest, stu
 
Stu

Nobody is questioning that Scottish beer is different to English beer, or that Scotland's inventive brewers have been associated with a number of distinctly "Un-Scottish" styles, although I do think Edinburgh's long association with IPA means that that particular style is as much a Scottish style as it is the invention of Burton on Trent.

What I do question is the BJCP's guidlines and thier over-simplified approach to the complex issue of classifying beer. If you read them on Scottish Ale, you're alomost given the impression that Roast Barley is a must have ingredient, when infact few contemporary Scottish Ales use that ingredient. For example, there's no Roast Barley in Cally 80/-.


The most important thing to recall is that the guidlines are not the product of a serious act of scholarship designed render an accurate account of the history and differences between various categories of beer. Nodody got a Ph.D for developing them and nobody had to convince a set of referees that the guidlines were accurate.

What the guidlines are, always have been, and will always be is nothing more than a system of categorization designed to assist in the running and judging of homebrew competitions held in the United States of America. Does that mean they are a complete work of fiction? No! Does it mean they are vulnerable to inaccuracies, clearly yes!
 
Stu

Nobody is questioning that Scottish beer is different to English beer,


I probably shouldn't rock the boat, but I'm personally of the opinion that these styles don't exist. There is no evidence that these beers are brewed any different to bitters in England.

Maybe I misread Kook's provocative post :p

As for your latest post, locost, I think we can, on the whole, just agree to agree, ok? :beer:
 
Just boiling this one up now. Using up some leftovers and it'll get dumped on a 1728 Scottish cake that will be ready to go in a day or two once it finishes up on the ISB big brew Belgian Strong (which tastes weird, but good with 1728!)

Steinmore Wee Heavy
OG 1.080 @ 82%, 35IBU, 16L

2.5kg JW Trad Ale
1kg Bairds MO
1kg JW Light Munich
200g JW Light Crystal
200g JW Dark Crystal
60g Bairds Peated Distillers Malt
50g Weyermann Carafa S III
30g Weyermann Choc Wheat

Mashed at 67C for 1 hour

Will get a dose of 30g Challenger 6.5% for 60m giving 35IBU

100min boil to get some caramelisation, i've taken some of the wort and boiled it down in a saucepan to get even more caramelisation.

Might even chuck a bit of french oak chip (no more than 10-15g, maybe even soaked in a bit of Laphroaig 10yo ;) ) into secondary as long as the Peated doesn't give too strong a flavour. 60g of Peated malt only should be fine, some strange Yank recipes i've seen call for 200g or more of the stuff....
 
Looks good, Ben. Finally using some of the peated malt. :) Like the idea of all that caramelisation. Why not all MO though? I'd say drink the Laphroaig though. :p

I've got some 1728 in the fridge so I'm definitely going to do one of these sometime over the winter. Maybe a slightly bigger Wee Heavy that'll be ready next winter. Be interested to see how this one turns out.

OT, but how does the ISB beer taste? Weird good or...? :unsure:
 
You're probably right, i should just drink the Laphroaig. Perhaps the Jameson, or even worse, JD can get a run in the oak. :D I think just adding the oak itself will be more than enough.

Aim for 1100 Stu, you know you want to. I didn't use all MO because i was using up the dregs, so i only had 1kg :(

ISB big beer tastes good, the 1728 has added a weird phenolic smokiness, but it is very nice. Already down to 1012 from 1064 and holding steady, which is good because the hop/sweetness balance is bang on at the moment.
 
Hey DJR,

How did your brew turn out ?
I had the Red Hill Scottish Ale at the weekend and it was very enjoyable. Brewing this weekend and thinking a nice Scottish Ale would sit perfectly for Winter.

Beers,
Doc
 
Haven't quite cracked it yet, tasted pretty damned good when i bottled it though. Might pop a brew in the fridge tonight and see how it turned out.
 
Thanks DJR. Sounds great. I just happen to have some peated malt here on hand too.

Doc
 
I am fairly new to brewing, been a member here for a few years, but have spent two years in the UK and find i'm longing for the tastes of the isle. I was fairly drawn to beers like McEwans Champion Ale from day one in London (my first trip to Tesco). Now, I currently only have the experience and equipment for a can brew. I've been looking at getting my hands on the Muntons Scottish Style Heavy Ale can. Are there any things i should know/be aware of?

Cheers
 
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