Style Of The Week 12/7/06 - Foreign Extra Stout

[Stuster]

With the cold winter nights here in the south what better than a warming dark ale, specifically a Foreign extra stout, 13C in the BJCP guidelines.

An article from Brewing Techniques, here, will give you some background on the different stout categories.

So what grains do you use for FES? What do you think of stout malt? What other grains/adjuncts/sugars do you add? What yeast is best, the classic Irish yeast strain (WLP004/1084) or any other? Kits seem to work well for darker beers, so which ones are best for this style? Any fermentation tips? How long is it best to wait before drinking these? Has anybody used Brettanomyces for that authentic touch? As pointed out by Jayse, most Australian stouts will fit into this category, so what are your favourite commercial stouts?

Let's talk stout. :chug:

13D. Foreign Extra Stout

Aroma: Roasted grain aromas moderate to high, and can have coffee, chocolate and/or lightly burnt notes. Fruitiness medium to high. Some versions may have a sweet aroma, or molasses, licorice, dried fruit, and/or vinous aromatics. Stronger versions can have the aroma of alcohol. Hop aroma low to none. Diacetyl low to none.

Appearance: Very deep brown to black in color. Clarity usually obscured by deep color (if not opaque, should be clear). Large tan to brown head with good retention.

Flavor: Tropical versions can be quite sweet, while export versions can be moderately dry (reflecting impression of a scaled-up version of either sweet stout or dry stout). Roasted grain and malt character can be moderate to high, although sharpness of dry stout will not be present in any example. Tropical versions can have high fruity esters, smooth dark grain flavors, and moderate bitterness. Export versions tend to have lower esters, more assertive roast flavors, and higher bitterness. The roasted flavors of either version may taste of coffee, chocolate, or lightly burnt grain. Little to no hop flavor. Very low to no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium-full to full body, often with a smooth, creamy character. May give a warming impression from alcohol presence. Moderate to moderately-high carbonation.

Overall Impression: A very dark, moderately strong, roasty ale. Tropical varieties can be quite sweet, while export versions can be drier and fairly robust.

History: Originally high-gravity stouts brewed for tropical markets (and hence, sometimes known as "Tropical Stouts"). Some bottled export (i.e. stronger) versions of dry or sweet stout also fit this profile. Guinness Foreign Extra Stout has been made since the early 1800s.

Comments: A rather broad class of stouts, these can be either fruity and sweet, dry and bitter, or even tinged with Brettanomyces (e.g., Guinness Foreign Extra Stout; this type of beer is best entered as a Specialty or Experimental beer). Think of the style as either a scaled-up dry and/or sweet stout, or a scaled-down Imperial stout without the late hops. Highly bitter and hoppy versions are best entered as American-style Stouts.

Ingredients: Similar to dry or sweet stout, but with more gravity. Pale and dark roasted malts and grains. Hops mostly for bitterness. May use adjuncts and sugar to boost gravity. Ale yeast (although some tropical stouts are brewed with lager yeast).
Vital Statistics:
OG FG IBUs SRM ABV
1.056 - 1.075 1.010 - 1.018 30 - 70 30 - 40+ 5.5 - 8%

Commercial Examples: Lion Stout (Sri Lanka), ABC Stout, Dragon Stout, Royal Extra "The Lion Stout" (Trinidad), Jamaica Stout, Guinness Extra Stout (bottled US product), Guinness Foreign Extra Stout (bottled, not sold in the US), Coopers Best Extra Stout, Freeminer Deep Shaft Stout, Sheaf Stout, Bell's Double Cream Stout

 

[Barry]

Good Day
I really like foreign stout. I have my stock recipe for ir at oz.craftbrewer.org/Recipes/
Called Old Dark.

 

[Stuster]

Nice looking recipe, Barry. Do you find any difference when using the stout malt to using more standard pale malts? Do you use that malt for other dark beers as well?

 

[Barry]

Good Day
Not really. Hard to get the stout malt now so I use Maris Otter which is even better in my opinion.

 

[lou]

Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout Sheaf Stout

Yum - am working on a clone :chug:

lots of chocolate and coffee flavour and aromas with a nice fruity ester which compliments roast malts perfectly. Pretty much the only beer I want to drink in winter


most aussie stouts suck IMO - they have too much flavour hops added and taste thin and minty - Coopers stout suffers from this in particular - but Carbine Stout (XXXX stout) also sucks.

Aussie guiness is flavourless and thin (surely not like the original) They changed the tooheys old recipie to make it thinner and less flavourful though really its a dark ale.

Sadly they don't even sell Sheaf in QLD - have to bring a case up with me on the plane on my regular trips down to sydney

Love MO in my stouts - latest mash should be a ripper - the wort tasted good straight out of the boiler- seems almost a shame to le the yeasties have first munch.

lou

 

[Stuster]

Southwark Old Stout. :chug: :super:

I'm not sure that you could call that thin, Lou. :blink: Really full mouthfeel, hints of coffee, some alcohol present, rich. Any clones for this around?

The recipe for a Sheaf clone would be great when you're happy with it as well.

MO is great IMO.

 

[neonmeate]

Southwark Old Stout. :chug: :super: Any clones for this around?

i remember reading or hearing somewhere that they make this with a lager yeast. so it's more a baltic porter than a foreign stout but who cares.

lou i can't believe anybody would prefer sheaf to coopers stout but then i am always getting surprised by the fact that other people have different tastebuds not to mention different brains - scary thought.

sheaf i do admire for its extreme crudeness. soysauce and vegemite and burnt toast and tar. at least it doesnt leave you looking for flavour. finesse on the other hand is not one of its strong points.

coopers stout used to be so much better back when it was 6.8% a few years ago. rich, oily, fruity, roasty, bitter. it's a shadow of its former self now.

when it comes to recipes i should say my last FES was a ripper but i can't take any credit for it as it is one of ray mills's recipes:
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?v...3972&num=44
only i made it with coopers yeast so it does come out a bit like the old coopers stout that i miss (sigh sniff). also added some espresso to half the batch and that was tasty.

 

[lou]

soysauce and vegemite and burnt toast and tar

mmm -now we're talking my kinda stout :chug:

lou

 

[homebrewworld.com]

lou,
I cant agree with you more mate.
Sheaf IMO is top shelf in my book, and i have been driniking it for at least 10yrs .
I have tried most of the commercials in oz and they all lack flavour and as you say are thin eg. Cascade & Coopers Stout.
Hate to say mate, but sheaf is at my local botlo cheap and plentyful, i think i am the only dude to ever buy it from the guy.
I think it has had the reputation in the past for being an 'old mans drink'. Fine by this 30 something yr old !

The day they drop Sheaf from production is the day i stop drinking megaswill totally !

 

[PostModern]

I think it has had the reputation in the past for being an 'old mans drink'. Fine by this 30 something yr old !

Stout is the generational bridge, I reckon. Everyone has a favourite stout, from your granddad to your kids. My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass. My favourite is Coopers Best Extra Stout, which fits this category exactly.

I make a dead ringer for Coopers BES using a partial mash of ale malt, some (to lots) of Munich, 300g crystal, 200g choc and a 100g of roast barley. I make up gravity with the Coopers or ESB 1.7Kg stout kit and DME, dark and cane sugar. Target OG is about 1.064-1.066. I usually bitter the boil with about 12 IBU of either POR if I want a Coopers clone else the same bitterness of EKG, styrian goldings or fuggles at 20 mins. Yeast is recultured Coopers yeast. It makes a reliably tasty partial mash stout. I brewed an American variation today. Same gravity and IBU but hopped with Nugget and US-56 for yeast.

 

[Tony]

what.......... coopers stout isnt 6.8% anymore

I havnt bought it since i could make my own.

going to make a stout next but it wont be a real strong one.

More a dry type in a murphy kind of line. A bit of sweetness and creamy.

cheers

 

[Darren]

what.......... coopers stout isnt 6.8% anymore

I havnt bought it since i could make my own.

going to make a stout next but it wont be a real strong one.

More a dry type in a murphy kind of line. A bit of sweetness and creamy.

cheers

Tony,

Good luck! You will probably need it to be "nitrogenated" rather than carbonated. Bubbles really remove the creaminess!!

Go the strong foreign extra stout and keep it for a year. Next winter you will be loving it.

cheers

Darren

 

[peas_and_corn]

My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass.

:blink: Haven't heard of that combination before!!

Coopers stout... not a big fan! A friend of mine recommended it to me and I bought a carton... the first six pack was easy to drink, but it got harder and harder as it went along... not a session beer, I must say! Now I can't touch the stuff...

 

[normell]

My pop's favourite stout was Guiness with a spoonful of sugar and a raw egg in the pint glass.

:blink: Haven't heard of that combination before!!

Coopers stout... not a big fan! A friend of mine recommended it to me and I bought a carton... the first six pack was easy to drink, but it got harder and harder as it went along... not a session beer, I must say! Now I can't touch the stuff...

Haven't seen a stout yet thats a session beer :blink:
Glad you don't drink it anymore, more for me

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Save a few for me norm
:beer:

Love a stout

Stuster even up here in the tropics @ this time of year a half doz pints befor bed ahhhhh now thats sleeping

:beer:

 

[warrenlw63]

not a session beer,

What constitutes a session beer is a subjective thing... I have no trouble downing two 750ml bottles of the stuff and enjoying it.

For what some may find a gross mismatch IMO it (Coopers) backs up South East Asian food wonderfully, particularly Vietnamese & Malaysian. :beerbang:

What I like about Stouts is most Australian brewers steadfastly keep one in their portfolio and none of them are what I would call undrinkable. Even CUB Invalid is an OK stout :beerbang: and let's face it everything else they make sucks.

Go the local stouts. :super:

Warren -

 

[warrenlw63]

BTW Does anybody know if you can get Sheaf Stout in Melbourne? :unsure:

I have a penchant to try some. :beerbang:

Warren -

 

[mje1980]

Last year i was lucky enough to be asked to judge the NSW home brew comp held at 5 islands. It was the day after a mates wedding where i had my fill of vb, im ashamed to admit!. Anyway, when i rocked up, i was asked to judge the stouts ( i was just gunna be a gofer, but i think they were short ). Anyway, this included foreign extra, and maybe RIS ( was last year!! ). With my vb hangover, i didn't know if i'd make it through without losing my guts, as im not much of a stout drinker. Well, they were very roasty, but they all had a sweet/estery character as wel, which was nice, and the roastiness was not harsh at all. I dont know how people brew super roasty beers without the harshness, i wish i knew hot to, but mine always turn out with a sharp bite. If i could brew a stout with roast flavour, but not the harshness i'd be very happy!. Any tips??, I've heard of chalk, but what kind of chalk??. Although, once in a blue moon i'll get myself a sheaf stout, just to cleanse the palate haha!, definately not short on flavour that one!

 

[warrenlw63]

mje

Adding the roast at the mashout/sparge state helps a lot.

As an experiment recently in conjunction with Gough I brewed an Irish dry with no water treatment which was stylistically-speaking austere. Was roughly 80% Marris Otter, 10% RB & 10% FB bittered to roughly 40 IBU with one addition of EKG pellets.

Drinks quite clean and unremarkable ATM. No roast bite whatsoever.

I'm also contemplating doing a Dry Irish up the track with Carafa III added at the mashout in lieu of Baird's RB.

Warren -

 

[neonmeate]

For what some may find a gross mismatch IMO it (Coopers) backs up South East Asian food wonderfully, particularly Vietnamese & Malaysian. :beerbang:

interesting... i can imagine maybe a big chunky massaman beef working well?

pho with stout is a bit weird. but i guess anything is an improvement on "33" beer.