Style check ESB - Just can't figure it out

[Acasta]

Hi guys,
I've been wanting to brew a good ESB for a while now and am never really satisfied with how the beers I've attempted turn out.
What I would like is earthy and slight malty/caramel taste from the malt without being too sweet, but with a good balance.
What I get i: a grainy bitter almost sour taste with no real hop or malt flavour.

It's obvious I need a bit more late hops and bring the bitterness to the later additions. But what can do to emphasize that sweet english malty flavour and possibly resolve the 'flavourless' bitter/sour taste?

The one I'm drinking now, which I got off a more experienced brewer than I:
89% Maris Otter, Simpsons
4.3% Crystal, Joe White
2.2% Amber
2.2% Melanoiden
1.1% Black
1.1% Choc

24IBU Northern Brewer @ 60min
15g Fuggles @ 15min
15g EKG @ 15min

WY1469, Fermented around 2 weeks @ 18C

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.013
IBU: 33.4

and previous to this I've made ESBs to similar to landlord, and a similar to above just less spec malts with a bit more crystal.

What I'm thinking the problem could also be are:
Wort aeration - I only shake fermenter for about 1min
Yeast Preperation - I follow wolfy's guide to splitting (1 pack into 4) then build a starter of 500ml, to 1.5L
Stale Malt - about 1-2 years old now.
Over extraction of grain (is this a thing?)
Maybe I just don't like this yeast?
Water treatment?

Happy for someone to come around and have a sample if they aren't too far away.

 

[Bizier]

I would suggest:
30 min +15 min + dry hop with EKG, middle IBU for style - EKG is earthy, but it gives that awesome marmalade citrus thing in ESB
English crystal malts are great, I am a fan of Simpsons Med, great for ESB
Check your water profile if there is any sour vibes, or even (gulp) sanitation.

 

[manticle]

Are you still in northcote?
1469 is an amazing yeast and at first glance your recipe looks ok.
Sour, no malt or hops sounds like lacto infection.

Are you treating water at all?

 

[Acasta]

I would suggest:
30 min +15 min + dry hop with EKG, middle IBU for style - EKG is earthy, but it gives that awesome marmalade citrus thing in ESB
English crystal malts are great, I am a fan of Simpsons Med, great for ESB
Check your water profile if there is any sour vibes, or even (gulp) sanitation.

Sounds like a good idea regards the Hops + Crystal. Using Melbourne water and treating it how it is suggested is a document that pops up here alot. Mainly using Calcium Chloride.

Are you still in northcote?
1469 is an amazing yeast and at first glance your recipe looks ok.
Sour, no malt or hops sounds like lacto infection.

Are you treating water at all?

Yeah I am in Northcote still. I do hear great things about 1469.
I have had a few batches go down the 'possible infection' route recently. I really hope its not that.
Water treatment, a little with Calcium Chloride.

 

[manticle]

I'm in fairfield so happy to have a taste and offer my opinion

 

[Acasta]

That'd be great.

 

[manticle]

Shoot me a pm and I'll pop round one night next week.

 

[kevo]

I'm in fairfield so happy to have a taste and offer my opinion

I'm on the Gold Coast and happy to have a taste and offer an opinion too...

 

[Bizier]

I reckon that traditionally, English beers are more about the 30 min hop + dry hop than late or ultra late kettle hops. I am admittedly not the best at riding the balance required as well, it requires somewhat of a deft hand getting the hops right.

 

[manticle]

I'm on the Gold Coast and happy to have a taste and offer an opinion too...

I'll meet you at acasta's place on tuesday then. Can give you a dink on my bike as far as alphington station if it helps you get home?

 

[yum beer]

I'll meet you at acasta's place on tuesday then. Can give you a dink on my bike as far as alphington station if it helps you get home?

There's an offer you ain't gonna get every day...

 

[kevo]

I'll meet you at acasta's place on tuesday then. Can give you a dink on my bike as far as alphington station if it helps you get home?

If they had the light rail here on the coast finished I could accept your generous offer, but unless you you can double me home, or you have stunt pegs on your back wheel, I'll have to pass.

What about Thursday?

 

[manticle]

That miriam does thursdays. We're 'ill' on thursdays.

 

[kevo]

Back to topic...

On first glance the malt bill seems overly complicated, but I have had some great beers similar to this style with similar malt, especially the melanoidin.

Yeast and temp control are crucial - my temp control is on the blink ATM and any bitters just aren't right.

You guys enjoy that tasting.

 

[warra48]

Why use Black Malt in an ESB ?
To me, it seems totally out of place, and is most likely responsible for the grainy bitter almost sour taste.

 

[kevo]

I've used tiny amounts of black malt in English beers previously for colour - no percievable flavour from it - not sure what the other darker malts here might do, but I think it has a place in very small amounts and with everything else going on in there I doubnt it would contribute much in terms of flavour.

Kev

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Why use Black Malt in an ESB ?
To me, it seems totally out of place, and is most likely responsible for the grainy bitter almost sour taste.

Agree. Drop the black and choc and go with a dark xtal.