Step Mashing For Wheat Beers

[NeilArge]

G'day

I'm going to attempt my first ever AG wheat beer soon (a weizen) and have been following some discussions on a Northern Hemisphere forum . Despite the number of recipes I read that say a simple infusion is fine there is also a body of opinion that a step mashing regime is necessary to get the full 'banana 'n' cloves' character of genuine German weizens. I am thinking of doing a 44-66-76 step mash, with decoctions used to reach the step temps. I am only too happy to concede that I am very new to this but what is your opinion? Is this complicated approach needed for Aussie (JWM) wheat malt? (c. 50/50 wheat/pilsener grain bill).

Thanks for any feedback,

ToG

 

[jlm]

Hmmmmm, well this will be another of those topics with many different opinions....... Mine though after doing 7 weizens now is that a step mash is worth it. My latest is as close to zwickel's weizen regime as I could manage with infusions and decoctions and I have to say it's my best yet. Tart, good balance of clove and banana, perfect summer beer (wrong time of year though).The next thing to think about is yeast, gone back to 3068 after using 3638 for the previous few, when the 3068 has run dry will try the same mash with the 3638.

 

[Kleiny]

Ive always found it to be the fermentation temp that gives those yeast characters such as banana, clove and bubblegum.
The weizens ive made have all been single infusion with the weienstehpan yeast strain and i get plenty of those characters at temps of around 22-23C fermentation.

Kleiny

 

[jlm]

Oh yeah, forgot that minor issue.... :icon_drunk: I've been pitching coolish and letting it warm up for the last few....

 

[Zwickel]

Hello ToG,

Id suggest you to do a 43C, 62C, 72C mash regime instead (ferulic acid rest; beta amylase rest; alpha amylase rest)

For those who are interested in, Im going to post an original German recipe.

A very popular recipe over here is the "Almtaler Hefeweizen" (makes you jodel)

the original recipe is shown in the following pic:



Im going to translate the most important things:

OG 1052; alcohol by volume 5.2%; Bitterness 14 IBU; Colour 10EBC
Ingredients for 50l of beer:

5kg wheat malt
4kg pilsener malt
1kg munich malt

water primary 32l
sparge water 34l

heat up the primary water (32l) to 49C, dough in, resulting temp will be 43C, keep it there for 20min.
then heat it up to 61-63C and rest for 30min.
then go to 72C and rest for another 30min.
then heat up to 78C and mashout.

Hops:
put in 30g Tettnanger (before it boils) and add another 30g Tettnanger 10min. after boil gegan.
boil for 70min.

Yeast:
Wyeast/Weihenstephan #3068; fermenting temp 18-22C

have fun

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

G'Day mate , Whats Jodel? If its good I want some ! :icon_cheers: Im going to put down a Dunkle wheat soon and was thinking about using some Weyermann Cara Wheat, ever used it ?
GB
Edit: You mean Yodel ? liker in the swiss moutains?

 

[Screwtop]

Hello ToG,

Id suggest you to do a 43C, 62C, 72C mash regime instead (ferulic acid rest; beta amylase rest; alpha amylase rest)

For those who are interested in, Im going to post an original German recipe.

A very popular recipe over here is the "Almtaler Hefeweizen" (makes you jodel)

the original recipe is shown in the following pic:

View attachment 29229

Im going to translate the most important things:

OG 1052; alcohol by volume 5.2%; Bitterness 14 IBU; Colour 10EBC
Ingredients for 50l of beer:

5kg wheat malt
4kg pilsener malt
1kg munich malt

water primary 32l
sparge water 34l

heat up the primary water (32l) to 49C, dough in, resulting temp will be 43C, keep it there for 20min.
then heat it up to 61-63C and rest for 30min.
then go to 72C and rest for another 30min.
then heat up to 78C and mashout.

Hops:
put in 30g Tettnanger (before it boils) and add another 30g Tettnanger 10min. after boil gegan.
boil for 70min.

Yeast:
Wyeast/Weihenstephan #3068; fermenting temp 18-22C

have fun

Cheers :icon_cheers:

Oh Yum, can vouch for Zwickels mash schedule, have made some great North German Weizen's using his mash schedule and recipes. Summer is coming soon mate, best get some Weizenbiers on the to do list. Earthworks start for the shed on Thursday :icon_cheers: the next time you visit there will be a manshed and a bar to enjoy.

Screwy

 

[roger mellie]

Oh Yum, can vouch for Zwickels mash schedule, have made some great North German Weizen's using his mash schedule and recipes. Summer is coming soon mate, best get some Weizenbiers on the to do list. Earthworks start for the shed on Thursday :icon_cheers: the next time you visit there will be a manshed and a bar to enjoy.

Screwy

Gotten Himmel Screwtop - I think I must have been in a time and space discontinuance for the last 4 months - could have sworn I read a missive from your good self stating that earthworks had already begun?!?

Anyway - have always done a single infusion for my wheats - keen to try a step mash to compare the flavours - I can get Bubblegum and clove - but want more 'composting mouldy oranges' - surely the holy grail.

Chance would be a fine thing - stuck up here in darwin with no mojo.

RM

 

[Screwtop]

Gotten Himmel Screwtop - I think I must have been in a time and space discontinuance for the last 4 months - could have sworn I read a missive from your good self stating that earthworks had already begun?!?

Anyway - have always done a single infusion for my wheats - keen to try a step mash to compare the flavours - I can get Bubblegum and clove - but want more 'composting mouldy oranges' - surely the holy grail.

Chance would be a fine thing - stuck up here in darwin with no mojo.

RM

:lol: RM, all started in a flurry, but earthmoving guy decided he had other more important jobs. Asked him to POQ and called for quotes again. After nearly 6 weeks in council we now have the go ahead for the new contractor who begins on Thursday. Guess I'll have to add to the thread when things kick off again. Nothin happins real quick in Gumpy :lol:

Screwy

 

[HoppingMad]

Hi Ton,

Asked a question earlier this year in the same ballpark as yours. Here: Protein Rest - is it handy?

The responses and research I did agreed in part with Jim's comment - that using a weizen yeast at higher temps will add banana and clove whereas lower temp ferments bring out more apple/pear characters.

Step mashes/rests assist with adding body and sacchrification I believe according to what i've been told - but happy to be corrected by more experienced people like Zwickel and Les the Weizguy who are old hands at this style on AHB.

Some reference that came out of that discussion you might find of use:

Weyermann's mash sched on a recipe:
Weyermann Mash

The link that screwtop also put in was quite handy for me too:Screwtop's link

Cheers and all the best with it. Wheat beers are a great style. I've only done the one in AG and it wasn't very flash - stupidly listened to some advice and didn't do a rest/step mash at all and the beer came out very thin - plus used WB-06 and fermented low (16 degrees). Came out like a WitBier/estery hoegaarden instead of a weizen! Next time I'm not mucking around - proper step mash like Zwickels and a good Bavarian Wyeast fermented in the ideal range.

Hopper.

 

[Zwickel]

G'Day mate , Whats Jodel? If its good I want some ! Im going to put down a Dunkle wheat soon and was thinking about using some Weyermann Cara Wheat, ever used it ?
GB
Edit: You mean Yodel ? liker in the swiss moutains?

howdy Nev,
sorry mate, I havent made a dunkel weizen yet, I love blonde

yeah, I mean yodel, thats the sound either you may hear in the mountains (Alps), or drink the "Almtaler Hefeweizen".
Also some Girls do it at a certain stage
Thats a common sound you can hear in the Alps region, not only in Swizerland, also in Austria and southern Germany.

Oh Yum, can vouch for Zwickels mash schedule, have made some great North German Weizen's using his mash schedule and recipes. Summer is coming soon mate, best get some Weizenbiers on the to do list. Earthworks start for the shed on Thursday the next time you visit there will be a manshed and a bar to enjoy.

Screwy

Screwy, anyway next time when were in Queensland, wed like to meet you and a few other homebrewers, weve met already, again, thats for sure.
So we hope youll have a little bit time and enough homebrew to spend a little while with us

Gotten Himmel Screwtop ...

:icon_chickcheers:


Sorry for getting off-topic.

Cheers

 

[NeilArge]

Hi Ton,

Asked a question earlier this year in the same ballpark as yours. Here: Protein Rest - is it handy?

The responses and research I did agreed in part with Jim's comment - that using a weizen yeast at higher temps will add banana and clove whereas lower temp ferments bring out more apple/pear characters.

Step mashes/rests assist with adding body and sacchrification I believe according to what i've been told - but happy to be corrected by more experienced people like Zwickel and Les the Weizguy who are old hands at this style on AHB.

Some reference that came out of that discussion you might find of use:

Weyermann's mash sched on a recipe:
Weyermann Mash

The link that screwtop also put in was quite handy for me too:Screwtop's link

Cheers and all the best with it. Wheat beers are a great style. I've only done the one in AG and it wasn't very flash - stupidly listened to some advice and didn't do a rest/step mash at all and the beer came out very thin - plus used WB-06 and fermented low (16 degrees). Came out like a WitBier/estery hoegaarden instead of a weizen! Next time I'm not mucking around - proper step mash like Zwickels and a good Bavarian Wyeast fermented in the ideal range.

Hopper.

Thanks Hopper - I owe you for doing my homework for me :icon_cheers: . I did try a few different searches on step temps and wheat beers but didn't come up with much and so did the cheeky thing by posting on an old topic... I will definitely do a step mash, using decocotions, and am using WY 3068. I'll have to wait for spring to get closer though to get to the right fermentation temp. - 10C in Armidale today!

Cheers and thanx

ToG

 

[NeilArge]

Hello ToG,

Id suggest you to do a 43C, 62C, 72C mash regime instead (ferulic acid rest; beta amylase rest; alpha amylase rest)

For those who are interested in, Im going to post an original German recipe.

A very popular recipe over here is the "Almtaler Hefeweizen" (makes you jodel)

the original recipe is shown in the following pic:

View attachment 29229

Im going to translate the most important things:

OG 1052; alcohol by volume 5.2%; Bitterness 14 IBU; Colour 10EBC
Ingredients for 50l of beer:

5kg wheat malt
4kg pilsener malt
1kg munich malt

water primary 32l
sparge water 34l

heat up the primary water (32l) to 49C, dough in, resulting temp will be 43C, keep it there for 20min.
then heat it up to 61-63C and rest for 30min.
then go to 72C and rest for another 30min.
then heat up to 78C and mashout.

Hops:
put in 30g Tettnanger (before it boils) and add another 30g Tettnanger 10min. after boil gegan.
boil for 70min.

Yeast:
Wyeast/Weihenstephan #3068; fermenting temp 18-22C

have fun

Cheers :icon_cheers:

Zwickel

Dunkeschon! That looks a delicious recipe and may even have a madchen I know well yodelling
I'll definitely try that mash regime also. Excellent advice mate.

Cheers

ToG

 

[warrenlw63]

Great thread leading into summer chaps (particular thanks to Zwickel) ... Let's just hope it stays on track and free of the "IMO" brigade.

I'll be bookmarking this one.

Warren -

 

[Fourstar]

Looks like an awesome recipe Zwickel! This will be coming up real soon i think. Just got to find the brew space

 

[fraser_john]

My first brew with my new PID controlled system is going to use step regime that Kirem has worked on:

Ferulic acid rest : 40c for 30 minutes
Protein rest : 55c for 15 minutes
Sach rest #1 : 61c to 63c over 40 minutes
Sach rest #2 : 70c for 50 minutes
Mash out : 75c

I am looking forward to trying it.

 

[HoppingMad]

Thanks Hopper - I owe you for doing my homework for me :icon_cheers: . I did try a few different searches on step temps and wheat beers but didn't come up with much and so did the cheeky thing by posting on an old topic... I will definitely do a step mash, using decocotions, and am using WY 3068. I'll have to wait for spring to get closer though to get to the right fermentation temp. - 10C in Armidale today!

Cheers and thanx

ToG

No probs Ton. Think you are on the money with your yeast choice. Some very experienced brewers in my club love that yeast and told me that this is what I should be using on my next one for the best result. Weihanstephaner is a great beer and uses this strain or pretty close I gather. You'll get good banana clove I think just by using this yeast in a sensible range.

Some people I've spoken to don't do full step mashes due to time constraints, but do one protein rest close to 50 and then straight in. But yeah, if you have the time and are keen to do it properly to add good body to your beer, then I gather Zwickel & Weyermann's method are the way to go. Course, take what I say with a grain of salt as I've only done one so-so weizen that turned out to be a witbier!

Cheers :icon_cheers:

Hopper.

 

[O'Henry]

I mashed my wheat at 55C and then 66C with no mash out. It turned out really well, best brew yet. 50/50 pilsner/wheat malt with 20% apple juice. Bit strange I know, but was attempting to make a non-beer drinker friendly beer and it worked.

As for the yeasts above, how does Safbrew WB-06 compare to them? Totally different flavour or just more complex?

 

[tdh]

There's a familiar recipe, it's out of Hubert Hanghofers book!

An excellent techniques and recipe book, gotta love this blokes surname too.

tdh

Hello ToG,

Id suggest you to do a 43C, 62C, 72C mash regime instead (ferulic acid rest; beta amylase rest; alpha amylase rest)

For those who are interested in, Im going to post an original German recipe.

A very popular recipe over here is the "Almtaler Hefeweizen" (makes you jodel)

the original recipe is shown in the following pic:

View attachment 29229

Im going to translate the most important things:

OG 1052; alcohol by volume 5.2%; Bitterness 14 IBU; Colour 10EBC
Ingredients for 50l of beer:

5kg wheat malt
4kg pilsener malt
1kg munich malt

water primary 32l
sparge water 34l

heat up the primary water (32l) to 49C, dough in, resulting temp will be 43C, keep it there for 20min.
then heat it up to 61-63C and rest for 30min.
then go to 72C and rest for another 30min.
then heat up to 78C and mashout.

Hops:
put in 30g Tettnanger (before it boils) and add another 30g Tettnanger 10min. after boil gegan.
boil for 70min.

Yeast:
Wyeast/Weihenstephan #3068; fermenting temp 18-22C

have fun

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[hefevice]

Hello ToG,

Id suggest you to do a 43C, 62C, 72C mash regime instead (ferulic acid rest; beta amylase rest; alpha amylase rest)

[snip]

Yeast:
Wyeast/Weihenstephan #3068; fermenting temp 18-22C

[snip]

+1 on the mash regime. I accidentally ended up doing approximately this (was aiming for a 66C rest but missed on the low side), and it turned out great. The 43C rest will also help with sparging by breaking down some of the glucans in the wheat (beta-glucanaise).

Given the high modification of malts now days, the decoctions only need to be boiled for a short amount of time (5 to 10 mins), and I normally give the decoctions a sacc rest at around 66C for 5 - 10 mins on the way up to boiling.

With regard to the fermentation temperature using 3068, I would recommend 16C until the krausen subsides, then slowly ramp up to 18-20C to clean up. Even at 16C the damned thing still climbs out of the fermenter. Be careful not to over-pitch or over-oxygenate. I have done this before an ended up with Acetyl-aldehyde problems. I find 1 pack of 3068 is fine for ~20L @ ~1.052. The lower temperature ferment restrains the esters (banana), and results in an excellent balance.