Starting Again - Properly this time

[madpie]

G'Day All,

A mate and I in our 40's are about to start brewing. We both brewed separately in our 20's, making beer simply using Coopers Kits & the like. We are both into craft beer and want to make beer properly. I presume this means all grain.

Can people point in the right direction for a few things;

1. I've got access to an old plastic fermenter that is at least 20 years old. Would this be safe?
2. What size fermenter do I need? I see the Coopers Craft Kit is only 15 litres. I always made 30 in the past.
3. What's the best resource to guide us through our first brew?
4. We thought we'd start with an American IPA, any recipe recommendations?

Thanks in advance

madpie

 

[Diesel80]

YouTube mate. Watch some brew in a bag videos then come back here and have a further read. Two of you brewing screams double batch size from the start. This requires large pot and large heating capacity. All easy to sort out for not big $. Where are you based?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

This site alone is an oyster for info. Use the search for your many questions you'll be surprised at the info.
Get a new fermenter.
All grain may not be your best option at the start. If Coopers beers taste good to you then the kits are good to go until you get set up for All Grain Brewing. Then the real fun begins. Designing to your own preferences. :chug:

 

[Barge]

If you've got a few $$ you could go halves in a grainfather or braumeister. A good intro to all-grain brewing without a lot of uncertainty, but a bit more expensive. If money is an issue then you will need to do plenty of research to decide how you want to go. Gas or electric? Three vessels or fewer? Or more! I recommend you google "brew in a bag" or BIAB, as mentioned above. It's a simple, low tech way of getting into AG brewing. Basically a bag and an 40L urn and you're away.

Ditch the old fermenter. Just a headache. For the sake of $25 each you are going to save yourselves a lot of worry and possible/likely infection.

20-25L would be a typical single batch run, depending on how you package, what sort of efficiency you get, target O.G. - lots of factors.

Took me a while to learn that sodium metabisulfite is NOT an effective steriliser. Most use starsan or iodophor.

Lastly, ask plenty of questions. There's lots of knowledgeable blokes on this forum. Plenty of good advice to be had.

 

[Roosterboy]

Madpie , first you have to understand the theory behind mashing, there's lots of good info on the web, some youtube stuff doesn't give correct info, there are articles done by the
Uni of Oklahoma (the chemistry of beer) on youtube. Yeh there is lots of chemistry but it's worth watching to understand why we use certain temperatures in mashing ie giving the
enzymes in grain the optimum temp and time to convert complex sugars down into fermentable sugars (not all are fermentable) or not fermentable if you want more body and malt
flavour.The importance of proteins and subunits of proteins (amino acids) on the body of beer and yeast nutrition. The importance of boiling the wort and how hops need a good
boil. Yeast and the fermentation process ( how to brew- fermentation by John Palmer ) ...very important.
Get good stuff , people skimp out on equipment and sanitisers (get starsan) . If you want to do smaller runs I have a Stainless steel basket which is perfect for BIAB (message me).
Use good stuff and with a good understanding of the process you WILL make great beer you'll be proud of.
Roosterboy

 

[Benn]

Accurate and stable temperature control during fermentation is pretty much a golden rule, this can be done on the cheap. Look into an STC-1000 it's a cheap digital temperature controller available from eBay and most homebrew shops. There's heaps of info on this site on them. Use one to run a fridge or chest freezer and you've got yourself a good fermentation chamber.

 

[Blind Dog]

You don't have to brew all-grain to do it 'properly'. IMO, you're better off starting where you're comfortable and getting the processes (sanitation, fermentation temp control, right amount of healthy yeast etc.) sorted rather than assuming all-grain is the only proper way to brew. That said, if you want to jump right into AG, go for your life

 

[TimT]

Learn by doing, learn by brewing. Sure, there's a lot of stuff that's useful and good and even vital to know - but at the end the only way you're going to work it out all for yourself is by doing a few brews. Nobody on this site knows everything, that's why sites like this exist - to share brewing knowledge and learn more. In short - go for it, my friend!

 

[TimT]

I started in all grain by reading straight through a brewing book, including the recipes - just about the only bits I skipped were the index bits at the end. There are good online resources for this sort of thing - Palmer's How to Brew is all online, for instance. That gives a fair idea of all the basics of the process.

In essence though the job is simple: measure out the grain, crack the grain, chuck it all in a cheesecloth bag, chuck the bag in a pot, pour some water over the top of that until it's properly immersed, and then slooooooooooowly raise the temp of the grainy water (hereafter known as wort) - on a stove or an outside burner, until it gets to the range of around 60 degrees celsius. This temp is the most important, hold it there for half an hour to an hour, maybe stirring a bit, and you'll get enough sugar for a beer.

Remove the bag, pouring more water through it to wash the residual sugars out of the grain and bring it up to its pre-boil volume.

Boil the **** out of the wort until its down to the volume you want. Should take about an hour. Add hops at the required interval - enough at the start for bittering, a few towards the end for flavour and aroma.

Cool it down to room temp, 20 degrees celsius, and chuck yo yeast in.

I'll venture an answer to your questions 1) Maybe, clean the crap out of it, every nook and cranny, and you should get it ship shape again. 2) Batch size varies but most people ferment about 23 L at a time, the 30 L in a fermeter is to allow some air space and some room for the brew to expand while fermenting. 3) Palmer's How to Brew online is probably the most easily available resource. 4) Whatever you like - I'd say start with an extremely simple recipe - only one grain ingredient, and only one type of hop, adding some for bittering and some at the end for flavour/aroma, to get a feel for the basics - and then scale up. This doesn't rule out making a pale ale or whatever, but I'm not sure about the specifics of the American IPA recipe.

Yeah go for it man you'll figure it out as we all do!

 

[Mikeyr]

My suggestion .... skip the can stage and go straight to Fresh Wort Kits.

Yeah they cost double the can price, but the difference in flavour will give you more confidence to go to the all grain stage.

Cans are good cheap beer and with enough patience and tweaks can be pretty damn good, Fresh wort kits are just too easy and I reckon gives you a much cleaner flavour

1) get a new fermenter or hit gumtree, you'll find bundles everywhere or do a really good clean of your old one and buy new seals (Home brew shop) and a tap. $2 at bunnings
2) get a cheap spray bottle and some starsan or phosphoric cleaner, your best friends in battling infections. Leave on spray is a godsend and tasteless. No metabisuphite or camden tablets to worry about.
3) buy a freshwort kit and a "teabag" of some appropriate hops. Cascade is a safe bet, to dry hop you first brew
4) a decent yeast, S05 or reconstitute some Coopers essentially free (lots of threads here in how to do it)

As Benn said, temperature makes a huge....huge difference, my first aha moment was really keeping temps down and getting rid of that "homebrew" taste (generally fusels)

I'm assuming Alstonville as in near Uralla. Gotta be a HBS in Ballina or Lismore .... roadtrip! BUT it's going to get warm up your way soon, if you can find an old fridge and build a "fermentation fridge", pretty damn easy, you'll really benefit.

Then do some surfing, i know a lot of folks like the brew in a bag method, I did for a few months and then went to a separate mash tun (read esky) ... personally find it easier than BIAB.

This site, youtube and google will help you leap from cheap beer to expensive beer ...... cause can beers are cheap ........ but getting into home brewing means that every day the postman delivers you that extra bit of stainless and you're waste deep in tubs of grain

 

[unknown]

Unless its new & unused ditch the fermenter.
If you decide to use plastic fermenters & bottles don't use anything that will scratch them when you clean them. 30lt is a good size fermenter for your needs.

If you only buy one book to learn everything from basic to advanced brewing make it this one - http://www.bookdepository.com/Mastering-Homebrew-Randy-Mosher/9781452105512 if you ordered it today you'd have it before the end of next week.

Use one of the recipes from the book.

Edit
Clicking on the book in this link will allow you too see part of what's inside the book. http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Homebrew-Complete-Brewing-Delicious/dp/1452105510

 

[Roosterboy]

That book is a good idea, understanding the process , decreases the chance of a poor batch and the chance of people leaving the hobby. I know lots of people who
lived by the " just go for it , don't worry about research " but they get frustrated at beers not working , make crap beers that other people call "typical home brew crap"
and turn people off the idea of brewing." Process control" is the name of the game in brewing and AG brewing gives you the best chance.

 

[Matplat]

I'm going to second what others have said, read www.howtobrew.com all of it. It might take you a week of reading on and off and re-reading to absorb it all but it will be worth it. Then, set-up a fermentation fridge with stc-1000 asap, it isnt expensive and takes alot of guesswork and effort out of the process...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

G'Day All,

A mate and I in our 40's are about to start brewing. We both brewed separately in our 20's, making beer simply using Coopers Kits & the like. We are both into craft beer and want to make beer properly. I presume this means all grain.

Can people point in the right direction for a few things;

1. I've got access to an old plastic fermenter that is at least 20 years old. Would this be safe?

Yes. Just give it a good clean and sanitise.

2. What size fermenter do I need? I see the Coopers Craft Kit is only 15 litres. I always made 30 in the past.

30lt will need prob a 40l + fermenter


3. What's the best resource to guide us through our first brew?

www.aussiebrewer.com

4. We thought we'd start with an American IPA, any recipe recommendations?

Heaps...you doing kit, Kit, extract or AG

Refer to point 3

Thanks in advance

madpie

Dont be afraid to ask questions.

We are here to help

 

[butisitart]

brew what you want to drink. if you like american ipa, brew that. start with whatever is going to excite you.
if you've got a 20yr old fermenter, you may as well keep it. if you get to buying 25kg bags of grain, they're a good storage barrel. but i wouldn't ferment beer in it.
washing old bottles?? use napisan (in surprisingly small doses). it's the same active ingredient as expensive bottle wash. sodium percarbonate.
if you go the can kits, check the use by date. don't fall for the 'nearing use by date sale' bin. they taste revolting cos it deteriorates in the can.
with can kits, add 5gms or so, but no more than 10gms, of hops to mask the homebrew taste. (boil the hops for 10mins or so, then fine mesh sieve it into wort). a simple way of adding to the experience.
read palmer (as above). other reads (as above). brewing classic beer styles, by zainasheff and palmer, free online pdf format. this forum also has an abundance of good info.
don't be overwhelmed by technical rants on forum. take it up a notch at a time as you gain confidence /experience.
i mistook the wife for a 20 year old plastic fermenter once. she hit me with one of those heavy crystal vases. i'll never do it again.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

if you've got a 20yr old fermenter, you may as well keep it. if you get to buying 25kg bags of grain, they're a good storage barrel. but i wouldn't ferment beer in it.

Why not use it as a fermenter

If it is clean and sound, use it

Just because it is 20yrs old is no reason not to use it

I would like to see some one put up at least 1 reason not to use it if it is sound and wont fall apart

 

[TheWiggman]

I'd feel a bit confused if I was mad pie.
1. Agree with Stu, the old fermenter will be fine. Regular batch size would be 23 litres in the Coopers style fermenters.
2. As per stu.
3. Best resource early on would be a fellow brewer with experience, particularly if doing AG. Spend a day doing a brew with them and learn why and how things are doing. Invaluable.
4. Check out the recipe section of this site (up the top on the home page) or do a search for a specific beer you might like like hop hog.
Have fun, it's a slippery slope.

 

[Barge]

I would like to see some one put up at least 1 reason not to use it if it is sound and wont fall apart

Caution. Peace of mind. Not risking $50 of ingredients getting infected because of some scratched plastic hiding bacteria. If it's in good shape, and has been looked after, then it would be fine, but when you can buy a blue conyainer from bunnings for $20 that's rtg it doesn't seem worth the risk.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Caution. Peace of mind. Not risking $50 of ingredients getting infected because of some scratched plastic hiding bacteria. If it's in good shape, and has been looked after, then it would be fine, but when you can buy a blue conyainer from bunnings for $20 that's rtg it doesn't seem worth the risk.

Good sanitation and it will be fine

 

[Barge]

Good sanitation and it will be fine

I don't disagree and not having seen the fermenter I wouldn't make the call.

If it was full of gecko **** I wouldn't trust that I could get it clean to a level I would be happy with. I'm sure sodium perc followed by starsan would sort it but I would still be worried.