Sparkling Wine

[box1964]

Hi all, Im new here and i dont know if i posted in the right forum so if you can please be patient as a little guidance will be gratefully appreciated.

I want to make sparkling wine. I have the chardonay .will carbonating the wine be the go, and what difference is required between wine and beer carbonation times and pressure if it works.

PLEASE BE GENTLE as im NEW

 

[Kieren]

Hi Peter,

I don't think there are too many wine makers on this forum. Mainly beer here.

Are you carbonating the wine in the bottle or in a pressurized vessel before filling the bottles? Sparkling wine is generally carbed at a higher pressure. You may fare better on a wine makers forum.

Kieren

 

[manticle]

There is a non beer brewing section and there are some amateur and professional winemakers here so you may get a decent answer to your query.

 

[Muggus]

This probably belongs in the "Non-Beer Brewing" section, but meh...

This chardonnay you have, is it a finished wine? And if so, do you know how much free SO2, residual sugar, alcohol, etc....important factors.

If you want to go proper Methode Champenoise, you'll need to build a good healthy starter of a Champagne yeast, like EC-1118, and slow get it acclimatised to the alcohol, pH, whatever, that is the wine itself.
You'll also need to add sugar. Assuming it's bone dry, no residual sugar, around about 24g/L sugar will give you about 6 atmosphere of pressure, that is typical of most Champagne bottles.
You'll have to have a homogenised mixture when bottling to ensure equal amounts of yeast are distributed into each bottle...so the mixture should be continually aggetated whilst bottling.

Once the bottlings done, it'll need a few months in bottle, on its side en tirage.
And some point down the track (15 months, lets say), need to be riddled, disgorged, and topped with a liqueur d'expedition...that's if you wanna go proper Champagne style

 

[box1964]

Hi all, Im new here and i dont know if i posted in the right forum so if you can please be patient as a little guidance will be gratefully appreciated.

I want to make sparkling wine. I have the chardonay .will carbonating the wine be the go, and what difference is required between wine and beer carbonation times and pressure if it works.

PLEASE BE GENTLE as im NEW

 

[box1964]

thanks ill go to the non brewing section

 

[Silo Ted]

Hi and welcome. How serious do you want to get ? Are you looking to just make some sparkling wine to save a few bob, or do you plan on dedicating hundred of hours and thousands of dollars into the obby ?

At a crude level, you could add some sugar to your chardonnary, put it in a plastic bottle, add yeast, and cap it with the Oz-Tops system.

http://www.oztops.com.au/

Tell us more on what you envision your setup to be. Im interested in reading some of the responses myself.

 

[box1964]

Hi and welcome. How serious do you want to get ? Are you looking to just make some sparkling wine to save a few bob, or do you plan on dedicating hundred of hours and thousands of dollars into the obby ?

At a crude level, you could add some sugar to your chardonnary, put it in a plastic bottle, add yeast, and cap it with the Oz-Tops system.

http://www.oztops.com.au/

Tell us more on what you envision your setup to be. Im interested in reading some of the responses myself.

im just started. My partner and i love a good chardonnay sparkling . I thought by purchasing a brew fridge and carbonatting our favourites to be on tap that would be the go.Im not to familiar with it as ive also asked several brew shops that say they dont know how it would go?

Really im lost but am willing to learn.

 

[Silo Ted]

im just started. My partner and i love a good chardonnay sparkling . I thought by purchasing a brew fridge and carbonatting our favourites to be on tap that would be the go.Im not to familiar with it as ive also asked several brew shops that say they dont know how it would go?

Really im lost but am willing to learn.

I would think that the cleanest and most reliable way to keep a regular supply of sparkling wine running at your place would be to buy a 19L corny keg and a gas bottle, and be able to control the carbonation to your liking. It would help if you could buy your wine in bulk too, I'm sure it would be dirt cheap if you could buy 100L at a time, and way better for the environment than 'by the bottle' if you're running your own champers tap.

On a smaller scale, you could scour the shops for a cheap sodastream device and give that a go.
http://www.winewithoutbs.com.au/wine_witho...g-red-wine.html

 

[drsmurto]

Funnily enough i also have some chardonnay on the go, still going through MLF but seriously thinking about taking the unwooded portion (15L) and kegging it.

I keep sparkling mineral water on tap and have that gassed up to 20psi (@6C) so was planning on starting at that level and seeing how i go.

So my plan is to keg the chardonnay and then force carb by shaking the keg whilst at 50psi for 2 mins. Wait an hour, vent and then pour at normal pouring pressure. When not pouring gas it back up to 20 psi to maintain the carbonation.

 

[ChrisECarpenter]

im just started. My partner and i love a good chardonnay sparkling . I thought by purchasing a brew fridge and carbonatting our favourites to be on tap that would be the go.Im not to familiar with it as ive also asked several brew shops that say they dont know how it would go?

Really im lost but am willing to learn.

Can you post the favourite sparkling so we have an idea if you're wanting to replicate aged Champagne or sub-$10 sparkling white?

A huge part of the style of good champagne is the yeast autolysis character which is the bready/briochy/yeasty character that comes from long term ageing on yeast solids from the ferment in bottle (like >2 years, 5 years is more like it).

If you just like chardonnay and want it to be fizzy, then you could just carbonate it in keg and serve out of a tap.
From experience, you'll need about 100kpa at 3 degrees to give you equivalent carbonation. You'll also need a lot of line and a flow reducing tap to not just pour a glass of froth - its a lot harder to balance a setup like that than conventional ale dispensing.

If you want a fancy champagne style on tap, I would suggest you're going to spend a lot more on replicating the style than just looking at greys-online and picking up something at auction, or even buying it at a big chain like 1st choice.

If you reallllly want to make a champagne, you'll need to start with much lower alc and higher acid than still chardonnay (you want about 10.5% Alc/Vol to start), so you'll need to buy a very light unoaked style.
You'll need to make sure it has no free So2 - the easiest way to do this is to soak it up with an active yeast culture (otherwise you've got to add an exact amount of Hydrogen Peroxide etc etc).
So make up a huge yeast culture with something strong - EC-1118 is okay but you can get better - DV-10 is good, UV-43 is better.
Add 1/2 to your base wine, add 5g/l of sugar, leave it 24 hours.
Then add the rest of the yeast, a further 20g/L sugar, bottle or keg it off.

Then ignore the wine for 2-4 years.
Filter from keg, or disgorge from bottle (shake solids into the neck of the bottle, leave neck in an ice bath to freeze the solids, invert, remove the top and then re-cap after topping up).

If you're going to bottle, you need champagne bottles - these can deal with the 6 atmospheres of pressure required.

Happy to answer any more questions (I'm a winemaker and make a lot of sparklings).
Chris

 

[Silo Ted]

Funnily enough i also have some chardonnay on the go, still going through MLF

I read that as "Still going through MILF" :icon_chickcheers:

 

[box1964]

basically want to carbonate in a 19 L keg if possible

 

[drsmurto]

basically want to carbonate in a 19 L keg if possible

Kegs will easily handle the pressure required to carbonate wine to produce a sparkling wine.

I plan on aiming for 3.5 - 4 volumes of CO2 so at 4decC i need to set the regulator to 155 - 193 kPa (22.5 - 28 psi) or add 77 - 96g of dextrose to the keg.

I'll probably go the dex route and leave it sit on the yeast lees for 6-12 months.

 

[box1964]

Kegs will easily handle the pressure required to carbonate wine to produce a sparkling wine.

I plan on aiming for 3.5 - 4 volumes of CO2 so at 4decC i need to set the regulator to 155 - 193 kPa (22.5 - 28 psi) or add 77 - 96g of dextrose to the keg.

I'll probably go the dex route and leave it sit on the yeast lees for 6-12 months.

What am i doing wrong????
19l keg 200kpa co2 for 2days with chardonay .
30kpa to dispense

Comes out fizzy from the tap with lots of sparkling bubbles then dies a grim death to be flat!!!!!!

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[Airgead]

Comes out fizzy from the tap with lots of sparkling bubbles then dies a grim death to be flat!!!!!!

There's the problem...

Losing too much fizz in the pour. You might need a longer line...

Cheers
Dave

 

[kirem]

What am i doing wrong????
19l keg 200kpa co2 for 2days with chardonay .
30kpa to dispense

Comes out fizzy from the tap with lots of sparkling bubbles then dies a grim death to be flat!!!!!!

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

lack of protein. Was the chardonnay made for still wine or bubbles?

 

[box1964]

lack of protein. Was the chardonnay made for still wine or bubbles?

not sure, bulk buy of wine in 10litre lots

 

[kirem]

not sure, bulk buy of wine in 10litre lots

As mentioned by Dave, the dispensing line length and 'balancing' your system for the pressures you are dealing with will go a long way. there a lot of calculators on the web that will help you with that. A quick search found this; http://www.angelfire.com/ks2/beer/homekeg.html

The mousse associated with bubbles has a lot to do with the protein level. Typically a still wine is bento fined to make it heat stable - removes proteins that cause haze if exposed to heat. These same proteins are of benefit in a sparkling wine as they help retain the mousse.

I'd say you can't easily do much about the protein level and by balancing the dispensing system, you should be able to get carbonated chardonnay, don't expect it to be much more than just that.

There are additives available that can help mimic the time on lees, like biolees, but they are long way from the complete package.

 

[drsmurto]

What am i doing wrong????
19l keg 200kpa co2 for 2days with chardonay .
30kpa to dispense

Comes out fizzy from the tap with lots of sparkling bubbles then dies a grim death to be flat!!!!!!

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Unless you are shaking it then 2 days is unlikley enough time for the carbonation to increase to 'sparkling' wine levels. What temperature is the wine at?

I doubt the line length will have much of an impact as the lack of protein in wine (a general comment, not 100% true) means wine doesnt hold a head. So pouring at high pressurer with a short line is fine. I do so with sparkling mineral water.