Smoked Malt

[arsenewenger]

Going to use Wayerman Smoked ale malt as the base in my next brew , just wondering what % You would use it at ,dont want to have it taste to over the top just sublte smokey flavour.


Cheers
AW

 

[Voosher]

It depends a bit on what you're brewing.
In a light beer 5% will give the subtlest hint but will be virtually undetectable in something like a porter.
10% is probably the subtle taste zone for a porter.
I wouldn't go past 20-25% myself, depending on style. I've tasted a full-on Rauchbier and it tasted like someone had brewed it with a leg of ham in the fermenter.

The other consideration is which smoked malt. Weyermann and Hoepfner are the two generally available here and one of them is noticeably stronger flavoured than the other, but I can't remember which.
Can anyone help my beer-addled memory? :blink:



Edit: "can", "can't", don't know the difference, can't read, can't type... I warned you my mind was beer-addled. :blink:

 

[Weizguy]

I'm fairly certain that the Weyermann Rauchmalz is the one that Schlenkerla uses for their Rauchbier.

It can be used at up to 100%, although the Schlenkerla clone recipe, in "Brewing Euro beers" by Protz and Wheeler, suggests the addition of 100g Choc malt with the 6 kg of smoked malt (for a 25 l batch).
I have one of these which is currently lagering in my keg fridge.

Beerz
Seth

*edit - I think the smoked malt is a pils malt, and not an ale malt, FWIW *

 

[Justin]

I haven't bought malt in a while but Warren suggested that you can't get hoepfner anymore, and I can't say I've seen it either. So that will probably cross that one off the list.

I know the hoepfner one was beech smoked malt, not sure if weyermann is the same.

I've tasted beers with up to 15% (which was very strong and pronounced IMO) and I brewed a split batch a while back of smoked munich dunkel with a friend. I don't think I'll do another, I certainly got my fix of smoked beers. It certainly is very similar to a bacon like flavour.

If you've never tried it before I'd err on the side of caution with the addition. It's certainly not a flavour a lot of people like and if you go too strong you'll end up with a beer you wont drink. I think 5% would be a good starting point for a first smoked beer.

I would like to try some peat smoked malt as an experiment, but I don't think I'll try the beech smoked one again. Just not a flavour that I like a lot of, which is weird because i like smoked meats etc but just not that flavour in beer. I guess subtly it might be a bit better.

Anyway, have a go as you never know how you'll like it. Best of luck. I'd say 5-10% of the grist with a personal preference to lean towards 5%.

Cheers, Justin

 

[Justin]

Holy sh!t 100% smoked malt :blink: I'd steer well clear of that beer, you can keep it to yourself.

How does it taste from the fermenter?

 

[Ross]

The Weyermann has a very light smoking & I think you would need minimum 400gms in a standard batch to get any real character. I put 200gms in my porter & it's virtually undetectable.- If you want something far more interesting try the Bairds peated distiling malt, it is full of character

From their website...

Bairds malt has taken steps to address the steady demand for peated malt. Inverness maltings has been re-established as a site for peated malt production following recent investment in this process. The plant can manufacture peated malt at a range of intensities including peated malt at the very high phenolic levels typically required by Islay Distillers.

Peated malt is used by some malt distillers to impart a smoked or peaty flavour in their spirit. This type of malt may also occasionally be used as a very small inclusion in brewers mashes to produce beer with a smoked character.

Peated malt is made using exactly the same production regimes and barley quality as (plain) distilling malt. The main difference is that peat smoke or 'reek' is introduced into the air drying the malt during kilning. The peat smoke is adsorbed onto the surface of the drying malt which when processed imparts the smoke or peaty flavour on the finished product.


Typical Peated Malt specifications

IoB Analysis units Typical value
Moisture % 4.5 max
Extract (course grind) % 77.5 min
Fermentability % 86.0 min
PSY (will depend on peating level) Litre alcohol/tonne 403
Lightly peated ppm 1 - 3
Medium peated ppm 8 - 10
Heavy peated ppm 25 - 35


cheers Ross

 

[Weizguy]

Holy sh!t 100% smoked malt :blink: I'd steer well clear of that beer, you can keep it to yourself.

How does it taste from the fermenter?

...smoky
Tony warned me about that! :lol:

It was weird-tasting from the fermentor b4 racking, what with yeast in it and all, but it seems to be nicer now.
You still get a bit hit of smoke flavour, but U can taste the pils malt too. The smoke flavour is less noticable as you continue to sip. Still a few more weeks of lagering before I carbonate and finally evaluate.

Lucky I only made a 25 litre batch. Hope the smoke flavour comes out of the fermentor...

Seth

 

[Justin]

Ha ha. That is a bold beer my friend. So it's smokey?

I wonder if the smoke kind of hits a threshold limit where it doesn't appear to get any smokier past a certain point? If you follow. Just going by the 15% beer I had I would have though 100% would just be blow your head off smoke, but maybe not.

Anyway, hope you enjoy it. They are the kind of beer where you just have one or two every now and then for something different, certainly not a session beer that's for sure.

Cheers, Justin

 

[DJR]

including peated malt at the very high phenolic levels typically required by Islay Distillers.

PSY (will depend on peating level) Litre alcohol/tonne 403
Lightly peated ppm 1 - 3
Medium peated ppm 8 - 10
Heavy peated ppm 25 - 35

Hmm, if it's Islay peat strength, you wouldn't need much at all! So what is the PPM of the one that you have on the craftbrewer site?

 

[ausdb]

It depends a bit on what you're brewing.
In a light beer 5% will give the subtlest hint but will be virtually undetectable in something like a porter.
10% is probably the subtle taste zone for a porter.
I wouldn't go past 20-25% myself, depending on style. I've tasted a full-on Rauchbier and it tasted like someone had brewed it with a leg of ham in the fermenter.

The other consideration is which smoked malt. Weyermann and Hoepfner are the two generally available here and one of them is noticeably stronger flavoured than the other, but I can't remember which.
Can anyone help my beer-addled memory? :blink:

Asher trotted out a smoked maerzen at a west coast brewers meeting last year, I think it was made using the hoepfner stuff. The overwhelming consensus was "Breakfast beer" as it would have gone nicely with bacon and egss :excl:

 

[Snow]

Peated malt is used by some malt distillers to impart a smoked or peaty flavour in their spirit. This type of malt may also occasionally be used as a very small inclusion in brewers mashes to produce beer with a smoked character.

I made a clone of Aldescott Malt Liquor (a French ale) a couple of weeks back which I kegged last night. It had 225g of peated malt in it. I'll be having my first pint tonight, but based on a hydrometer sample I tasted, the smoke flavour is quite noticable. It is more noticable than the 500g of Wyermann smoked malt I put in my smoked porter. It is more of a "campfire" smokiness, rather than the "bacon flavoured" smokiness you get from Beech smoked malts. It added a lovely complexity to the beer, without making you think you were drinking fermented ham soup.

Cheers - Snow

 

[Ross]

including peated malt at the very high phenolic levels typically required by Islay Distillers.

PSY (will depend on peating level) Litre alcohol/tonne 403
Lightly peated ppm 1 - 3
Medium peated ppm 8 - 10
Heavy peated ppm 25 - 35

Hmm, if it's Islay peat strength, you wouldn't need much at all! So what is the PPM of the one that you have on the craftbrewer site?

It's the medium peated...

cheers Ross

 

[Justin]

It is more of a "campfire" smokiness, rather than the "bacon flavoured" smokiness you get from Beech smoked malts.

That's the kind of smokiness I'd like to try in the next smoked beer if I was to give it a go again. I just associate the beech smoke with bacon and ham far too much, but the peat sounds more to my liking.

 

[Paul H]

I made a rauchbier marsen using 40% weyermann smoked, 40% pilsner, 17.5% munich & 2.5% chocolate.
Beer was well received generally & won a its class in a club comp.
I would not recommend it for the faint hearted though, although quite good for breaky on the run!

Cheers
Paul

 

[Malnourished]

I'm fairly certain that the Weyermann Rauchmalz is the one that Schlenkerla uses for their Rauchbier.

Actually, both Heller-Trum (brewers of the Schlenkerla range) and Spezial produce and smoke their own malt. I bet most of the smaller breweries in the Franconian countryside would use Weyermann's rauchmalz though.

100% Weyermann rauchmalz isn't too much, IMO, but obviously you need to like smoke beers to start with.

 

[arsenewenger]

Thought I would post the grain bill here , but go easy on me its only the second one I have put together and I thought it would be a good un

AW


Type: All Grain
Date: 01/09/2006
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Tony Kapeller
Boil Size: 33.80 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Smoked Malt (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 60.0 %
1.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 20.0 %
0.40 kg Amber Malt (Joe White) (23.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.40 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.0 %
0.10 kg Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 2.0 %
0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (72.0 SRM) Grain 2.0 %
12.00 gm Simcoe [12.00%] (90 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
10.00 gm Simcoe [12.00%] (60 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
10.00 gm Simcoe [12.00%] (30 min) Hops 10.6 IBU
10.00 gm Williamette [5.50%] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

 

[Stuster]

Hi Arsey Wenger

I've never made a smoked beer so nothing to say about the grain bill. It'd be good if you put in the expected gravity though. I'd suggest perhaps toning the hops down a tad since this will have heaps of flavour/aroma from the malt. You could just stick to one bittering addition at 60 minutes, perhaps around 30IBUs. Willamette is nice. :super:

 

[Voosher]

I'd agree that the bitterness can come down a bit. The smokiness is a sharp flavour so I'd back off the IBU's as I would with most grains with similarly strong flavours like Roast Barley or even Choc Malt.

Here's a link to the style guidelines for what it's worth...
Rauch's
Most recipes I've seen keep the bitterness in line with these.

The Amber might be a bit high as well. I've not used JW Amber but most I talk to think it's pretty strong and 8% will probably be too much. Maybe up the Munich to around 12% and drop the Amber back in proportion. Otherwise it seems fine. A lot of Rauch's follow a Maerzen type grist and other than something like Carafa, which is mainly for colour anyway, it's pretty good.

I'm not sure about the Simcoe as well. I am Captain Conventional so I'd plump for Noble or neutral hops generally, though having said that I think Willamette will work but I'd put it in a little earlier to get some of it's magic flavours.

BUT...
This game's all about doing whatever you want.

Cheers.
:chug:

 

[arsenewenger]

Thanks Voosher and Stuster for Your advice . I wll stick with the grain bill as is because I have already bought it but I have mad the adjustments to the hops as suggested . Will let You know how it goes and tastes.



AW

 

[tdh]

Here to assist Voosher's pickled grey matter - I've brewed my smoked Porter twice at the Grumpy's Brewhaus now and the first used Hoepfner and the second Weyermann.

The Hoepfner version was nicely detectable but didn't scare the horses, the Weyermann needed assistance from ones imagination. Both recipes were identical in %'s.

The phenol level does supposedly drop with time too, maybe this was the case here. Had also read somewhere that Hoep and Wey Rauchmalz are both from the same maltster, anybody heard this?