Semi-No-Chill

[Matplat]

Evening all,

I have been contemplating using the no-chill method to do my first partial-mash brew. Despite my arguments against going AG in the "whats your excuse for not going AG thread" it's undeniable that some brews deserve the respect of fresh grain!

Anyway, while reading about the no-chill method, I have been put off by a) losing the opportunity for late kettle hop additions and b)introducing ambiguity in to the bittering hop additions. Granted after a few brews you will get the hang of how to adjust hop timings but I would prefer not to have to.

Therefore I would like to propose a slight adjustment to the no-chill method and would appreciate your feedback.

After reading one or two websites it seems that isomerisation of alpha acids stops once the wort drops below 80deg so my idea is to adjust your boil volumes to allow addition of chilled water into the cube to rapidly bring the wort down below this critical temperature but then leave it to drop the rest of the way overnight. This would allow you to carry out all hop additions as per normal.

To prevent oxidation of the wort by water addition, the chilled water would have been separately boiled for an hour to de-oxygenate to the same level as the wort.

I realise that the cube would then not be sanitised by the wort to the same degree that it would do via the no-chill method, however with decent cleaning and sanitising beforehand, and the fact that 80deg is still good to kill 99% of bugs anyway I think the risk of wort infection is minimal.

Your thoughts?

 

[nosco]

It sounds like you have more extract Xp than me when but If you haven't already done an AG brew then I'd say your over thinking it. Just make a brew, enjoy the process and enjoy the beer at the end. There are so many possible variables that will change your beer to experiment with its not funny. So unless you want to make exactly the same beer every time (then get a Braumeister or something) then don't worry about it.There will always be something different you want to try and do on your next brew.

I started just making recipes from Brewing Classic styles as close to the recipe but with no chill and they all made nice beer. Maybe not always to my taste but nice beer. Only just starting to try the 20 minute hop allowance for now chill on my own recipes now and up to my 15th brew. Still just getting my feet wet.

I have tried letting the beer cool to about 80c and adding hops. Turned out great but I did pitch the next day to be safe.

 

[manticle]

I nc and my wort is around 80 going into cube. Let stand, whirlpool, let stand. My zero additions go into whirlpool but some people add to cube.

My advice though is to forget what you read nc might do to hop additions, try simple nc and if the beer is too bitter/insufficiently hoppy, then work out which of the many potential solutions works for you. Some beers are better candidates for fiddling than others.
Both chilling and no chilling are really easy - hybrid methods to me seem to be overcomplicated in the main. Rocket science it is not.

 

[mje1980]

Yep, great point. I've never adjusted calcs for no chill compared to when I chilled. Didn't notice any huge difference, so just calc as normal.

 

[Yob]

do you have a pool? Fantastic way of rapid slow medium quick chilling

when we do the swaps at Idzys, we utilise the pool there.. 20 odd cubes going into the pool is a pretty awesome sight

 

[mofox1]

Like nosco and Manticle, I wait till the kettle temps have dropped - I tend to cube at 85, and *usually* cube hop rather than whirlpool.

If you want an extra flavour/aroma burst with little added bitterness, do a hop tea in in 1-2L of boiled water, let stand for a minute or two then pour the lot straight into the fermenter after you dump the cube. Strain or don't, opting for laziness and one less thing to sanitise, I tend not to.

 

[Matplat]

but nice beer. Only just starting to try the 20 minute hop allowance for now chill on my own recipes now and up to my 15th brew.

My advice though is to forget what you read nc might do to hop additions, try simple nc and if the beer is too bitter/insufficiently hoppy, then work out which of the many potential solutions works for you.

Yep, great point. I've never adjusted calcs for no chill compared to when I chilled. Didn't notice any huge difference, so just calc as normal.

I find this a surprising response, it seems that everywhere i've read people talk about losing late kettle hops, and how to adjust hop timings, I even saw a table somewhere comparing equivalent hop addition times for chilling vs no-chilling.

Wisely or not, the brew that I have in mind is also my first Lager (Brewing Classic Styles Oktoberfest) and considering the investment in time and money they take I am trying to get as close to the recipe as I can with the equipment that I have.

Perhaps you are right Manticle, too many new things at once is a bad idea.....

All of that aside, does it seem like a workable idea / give any benefit at all? It just seems easier simpler than the Argon method of doing a mini boil post-chill to achieve late kettle additions.

Maybe I will try this on a simpler pale ale first before attempting a Lager.

 

[manticle]

Unless it's a really hoppy lager, that's a style I'd do as is.
What I am saying though is not 'don't bother', it's 'try simple nc and IF the resulting beer is too bitter/not hoppy enough for YOUR palate, then start playing with one of the multiple methods for adjusting'.

Otherwise how will you know what works?

 

[Matplat]

Yeah, it isn't a hoppy lager on this one, so in this case the late kettle argument doesn't really apply, it was more about the increased bitterness.

You make a valid point about needing a reference point to determine whether or not the method actually works, it's just difficult for me to follow the original process knowing that it is likely to skew a recipe away from its original intent.

I guess my reference would be that if I try this method and it doesn't change the flavour of my beers, then I know that it's good!

Whether I chill it or not, I need to add water to the FV post boil as I don't have enough room in two pots to get the pre-boil volume high enough, and doing a wort boil split between three pots is just a bit rediculous.

 

[manticle]

To combat extra ibu, you can just reduce your bittering addition. Again, good to have a reference point but still KISS

 

[MaltyHops]

do you have a pool? Fantastic way of rapid slow medium quick chilling

when we do the swaps at Idzys, we utilise the pool there.. 20 odd cubes going into the pool is a pretty awesome sight

Was that to warm up the pool in winter for the skinny dip? :lol:

 

[Reman]

Whether I chill it or not, I need to add water to the FV post boil as I don't have enough room in two pots to get the pre-boil volume high enough, and doing a wort boil split between three pots is just a bit rediculous.

I've done this a few times and it works an absolute treat. My method was to boil water straight away pour into take away containers to sterilise. Let them cool over night and put in freezer, don't fill too much as it will expand as it freezes.

On brew day at flameout spray the containers down with starsan, take the lids off a bit more spraying and then carefully plop them into the kettle. If you take them out 10 minutes before you need them, they'll defrost a little and make it easier to slip them out.