Saflager 23 Yeast Starter Question

[uniiqueuser]

It's time for a 200 litre lager brew (yes it's true 200 litres). Not megaswill either, will be using half dex half sugar (roughly) Hallertau hop pellets (boiled appropriately) and nine cans of Tooheys lager goo, according to a recipe created for this purpose by the guys at Grain and Grape.

Yeast starters have probably been done to death, but I propose a starter which has a quarter can of goo, 250 grams of sugar, 250 grams of dex in a (sterilised) 10 litre bucket covered with cling film.

Question is, how long would I need to ferment this starter to gain sufficient replication for a big brew? Saflager 23, I have noticed, is rather sluggish and won't take off like a kit yeast overnight, especially at recommended brewing temperature.

Is there danger that I might end up with a crap brew if accelerate the starter by fermenting at, say, 18 degrees, then adding to the main brew which will be maintained between 9-13 degrees? Or do I wait a week for the starter to get going?

By the way, my earlier lager brew made from my mystery hops (found on a block of land we purchased and suspected to be POR) has been bottled for six weeks, and even though not quite ready I sampled some the other day. It tasted like an angel had pissed on my tongue. Needless to say I think I won't be making straight K&K again...... :icon_drool2:

 

[manticle]

If you want to wotk out pitching rates why not use mr malty pitching calc for a 20 L brew and just multiply by 10?

Starter is supposedly better with just malt by the way rather than malt + sugar + hops.

I have heard of people pitching lagers warm then cooling and people pitchin cool. To my mind pitching at or close to ferment temps makes the most sense. Zwickel, a Geman user from this forum who makes lagers and wheats almost constantly has suggested to me pitching lager yeast at lager ferment temps.

 

[goomboogo]

If you are pitching at fermenting temperature then use twenty packets.

 

[kenlock]

A yeast starter in the range of 25 to 30 litres, should get the job done.

Definitely wait until you have made your starter or you'll have some very stressed yeasties!

 

[Wolfy]

Question is, how long would I need to ferment this starter to gain sufficient replication for a big brew? Saflager 23, I have noticed, is rather sluggish and won't take off like a kit yeast overnight, especially at recommended brewing temperature.

Don't make a starter, just buy and pitch (after rehydrating) the correct amount of dry yeast, somewhere about 100g depending on the OG.

Dry yeast is made/bred/conditioned with all the reserves and nutrients so that is is ready to work as soon as it's pitched.
Making a starter - unless it is has sufficient volume and contains an abundance of nutrients and oxygen - risks pitching less healthy yeast than it is directly out of the packet.
If commercial breweries who use dry yeast do not make starters, then there is no reason to suggest you should too.

 

[manticle]

Don't make a starter, just buy and pitch (after rehydrating) the correct amount of dry yeast, somewhere about 100g depending on the OG.

Dry yeast is made/bred/conditioned with all the reserves and nutrients so that is is ready to work as soon as it's pitched.
Making a starter - unless it is has sufficient volume and contains an abundance of nutrients and oxygen - risks pitching less healthy yeast than it is directly out of the packet.
If commercial breweries who use dry yeast do not make starters, then there is no reason to suggest you should too.

Good point (which I think is what goomboogo was alluding to as well)

 

[uniiqueuser]

A yeast starter in the range of 25 to 30 litres, should get the job done.

Definitely wait until you have made your starter or you'll have some very stressed yeasties!

Or just make a 23 litre brew and reuse the yeast cake? My last 23 litre brew took three weeks with Saflager 23.

Sadly I'm running out of winter, and the cold won't last forever!! I was averaging about 11 degrees in the fermenter in early July without heating or cooling.

I might just go get a few more packets from the local HBS (read: bong shop). This flies in the face of the experimental element of home brewing, but I will be better set up next winter.

I suppose if I wanted to brew a successful lager in other seasons I could chill the wort with cold water running through a coil. Old chest freezer, water pump, bit of antifreeze, or even adding a bit of home made vodka would do the trick, but I at the mercy of the elements at the moment.

Thanks to all for your input.