Rims Vs Herms

[Crusty]

Thanks TD,
I can see where a poorly designed Rims setup can render the wort useless if scorching occurs & the older versions of rims designs may or may not of been using the correct elements. The particular element I am looking at is a very low density, 20W/in2, be it a 2400watt, 3600watt or 4500watt incology sheath triple element. This element will have a user set temperature cutout that will power off if I get a stuck sparge & no water going through the heatstick. Wort caramelisation is not really a concern at this point due to measures undertaken to minimise the risk.
Herms is not out of the question either & I may still go this way.

Crusty

 

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Thanks TD,
I can see where a poorly designed Rims setup can render the wort useless if scorching occurs & the older versions of rims designs may or may not of been using the correct elements. The particular element I am looking at is a very low density, 20W/in2, be it a 2400watt, 3600watt or 4500watt incology sheath triple element. This element will have a user set temperature cutout that will power off if I get a stuck sparge & no water going through the heatstick. Wort caramelisation is not really a concern at this point due to measures undertaken to minimise the risk.
Herms is not out of the question either & I may still go this way.

Crusty

Crusty,



You are on the right track sourcing low density element. I got my element from Stokes in Melbourne via a local supplier as they wouldn't sell direct.

It was about 8mm round and 3 meters long at 2500 watts. I can't remember the density but we can do the math. It was as low as I could find at the time and cost about $140. The element could be shaped so I coiled it around the malt pipe.

I was hoping to use a PID controller but haven't got that far yet. V2 will have more bells and whistles but after getting my fingernails dirty again today I wouldn't rule out a version 3.

If you have a closer look at the Braumeister the element is always submerged so no chance of a burn out. Are we confusing RIMS and HERMS? I haven't had a stuck sparge in my system, some damn belligerent ones but none stuck. Even if circulation ceased, the bulk of the mash is submerged in the wort. Worst case scenario is slow malt pipe (poor circulation) which has an impact on mash but not fatal.

Getting the milling right is as much an issue as anything. V2 will have a wider more squat malt pipe which should improve circulation.

When I set mine, I let it get heat soaked at mash strike temp, then turn the temp controller down and put the lid on. The element only comes on a few times depending on the duration of the mash as I have insulated the outer vessel. Even with a low density element, I am still not happy.

Depending on the brew, I get slight build up on element and I am pretty sure I am causing issues to enzymes. Local heat right on the element will be much higher than wort average no matter what the density of the element. I have found this suits some beers anyway.

Keep in touch, let me know how you go.



Regards

TeeDee

 

[Crusty]

Crusty,



You are on the right track sourcing low density element. I got my element from Stokes in Melbourne via a local supplier as they wouldn't sell direct.

It was about 8mm round and 3 meters long at 2500 watts. I can't remember the density but we can do the math. It was as low as I could find at the time and cost about $140. The element could be shaped so I coiled it around the malt pipe.

I was hoping to use a PID controller but haven't got that far yet. V2 will have more bells and whistles but after getting my fingernails dirty again today I wouldn't rule out a version 3.

If you have a closer look at the Braumeister the element is always submerged so no chance of a burn out. Are we confusing RIMS and HERMS? I haven't had a stuck sparge in my system, some damn belligerent ones but none stuck. Even if circulation ceased, the bulk of the mash is submerged in the wort. Worst case scenario is slow malt pipe (poor circulation) which has an impact on mash but not fatal.

Getting the milling right is as much an issue as anything. V2 will have a wider more squat malt pipe which should improve circulation.

When I set mine, I let it get heat soaked at mash strike temp, then turn the temp controller down and put the lid on. The element only comes on a few times depending on the duration of the mash as I have insulated the outer vessel. Even with a low density element, I am still not happy.

Depending on the brew, I get slight build up on element and I am pretty sure I am causing issues to enzymes. Local heat right on the element will be much higher than wort average no matter what the density of the element. I have found this suits some beers anyway.

Keep in touch, let me know how you go.



Regards

TeeDee

Have you got the element in the mashtun under the false bottom? Direct heating the mash?
I have had a couple of stuck sparges in the past trying to be a bit too cocky with the crush to get my efficiency up from the 70% mark. I was doing single infusion, mash out & batch sparge. I now split the batch sparge up into two equal volumes. I collect first runnings after 60min sacc rest & then do the double batch sparge. The last APA 23lt batch I did according to BTP, my efficiency was 84.2%, a nice & welcome improvement. With the new system, be it Rims or Herms, I hope to get efficiency in the high 80's.
I am going to get this PID,


http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...p;products_id=4

Depending on heating element, 25A SSR, 25A Heat sink & PT100 probe. I'll upgrade this to 40A if I use anything above 2400watt.
Slowly piecing it all together & getting all BSP sockets welded onto the vessels this weekend. Grabbing a Hopscreen off beerBelly & 3 pickup tubes too. I am only renting here & trying to avoid the need to tinker with the electricity in case we move later. For now I will gas fire the HLT, digital temp monitoring, Rims or Herms electric & gas fire kettle. Well thats the plan anyhow.

Crusty

 

[[email protected]]

Have you got the element in the mashtun under the false bottom? Direct heating the mash?
I have had a couple of stuck sparges in the past trying to be a bit too cocky with the crush to get my efficiency up from the 70% mark. I was doing single infusion, mash out & batch sparge. I now split the batch sparge up into two equal volumes. I collect first runnings after 60min sacc rest & then do the double batch sparge. The last APA 23lt batch I did according to BTP, my efficiency was 84.2%, a nice & welcome improvement. With the new system, be it Rims or Herms, I hope to get efficiency in the high 80's.
I am going to get this PID,


http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_pag...p;products_id=4

Depending on heating element, 25A SSR, 25A Heat sink & PT100 probe. I'll upgrade this to 40A if I use anything above 2400watt.
Slowly piecing it all together & getting all BSP sockets welded onto the vessels this weekend. Grabbing a Hopscreen off beerBelly & 3 pickup tubes too. I am only renting here & trying to avoid the need to tinker with the electricity in case we move later. For now I will gas fire the HLT, digital temp monitoring, Rims or Herms electric & gas fire kettle. Well thats the plan anyhow.

Crusty

No the element is in the wort beside the malt pipe.

See pic. Proper RIMS

I get between 75% & 80% out of mine.

When I sparge/rinse I simply lift out the malt pipe, I pour water over the grain in the malt pipe to displace the wort in the malt pipe. 4.5 kilos of grain holds about 4.5 liters of wort which I collect at the bottom of the pipe held over a collection bowl.

The PID you have selected look more than functional enough.

In my V1.5 version I simply use a MashMaster. It's hard to justify much more in this versions, the end result is I make beer, I drink beer, I smile, I fall down. Mission complete.

It is tricky to pick out electrical components, exaggerated performance and lots of misleading info. I use the very unscientific method of double what you thing will work for power ratings.

I have started to think about weld less fittings. It's bloody hard work and expensive to TIG everything and I have done so far.

My setup runs on a 15 amp socket. It does suck the power; I need to replace the end of leads already as they get pretty hot when boiling.

I have retained the 3600watt element for boiling, it real time saver.

At the risk as drawing criticism from some of the pedants and cynics lurking in the shadows I will stick a couple of pics of my V1prototype setup in this reply. I am pretty sure we are talking about different setups.

Tee Dee

 

[Crusty]

Setup looks sweet TD.
I haven't seen anything like that before.

Crusty

 

[[email protected]]

Setup looks sweet TD.
I haven't seen anything like that before.

Crusty

Crusty,
thanks, all in one kettle, cleans easy, makes good beer, fun making it, still get to play with improving design. S U W E E E T D U D E.
Have a close look at the Braumeister site. Its a great setup. If you live close to Newcastle you can see one at Marks Home Brew.
My next setup will be a hybrid HERMS RIMS system, still in one vessel though.
I might go a little more exotic with control this time but the good old MashMaster is hard to beat.

Regards
TeeDee