Reverse Osmosis Water Profile

[QldKev]

:icon_offtopic: but does anyone know of a basic filter for brewing, something with reasonable flow and doesn;t cost heaps every 6 months in replacement cartridges.

 

[Camo6]

Hey Qldkev, I think there was an UV rated one in the garden hose thread. Here it is http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Twin-CARAVAN-Water-Filter-Kit-Heavy-Construction-White-Bracket-Filters-1-4GWC-/310641967020?pt=AU_SmallKitchenAppliances&hash=item4853b43fac I think Brendo was using one?

You'd probably still need to replace the filters every 6-12 months depending on use and care. Think they're about $12 or so.

By bypassing the ro membrane and just using the two carbon filters, mine was flowing at almost mains pressure albeit through a 1/4" tube.

 

[Florian]

Our RO filter puts out 1.4L per minute, additionally it only produces 0.5L waste per L, as opposed to the 'normal' 4L waste per L (IIRC).

it was considerably more expensive though so probably not suitable for the average brewer. We use it for all our drinking and cooking needs, including soda water on tap, so it made sense for us.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hi all,

I have recently purchased a 3 stage ro water filter off ebay and am curious as to how many other brewers use ro water and how they build their water profile from it. I understand that ro filters don't remove all minerals from the water but do they remove enough to negate entering any values when using a program such as BreWater or EZ water calculator?

Living in Melbourne's east I already have very soft water and imagine that the ro filter would make the water very close to de-mineralised. I guess I could have a sample tested but I'd like to know how other brewers - particularly Melbourne brewers - build their water profiles from ro water.

I think I remember a similar thread a while ago but could not find it.

Cheers,

Camo.

Looking at the site it mentions 95%, which means it is a lower grade membrane, better ones average 97.5%, really expensive membrane average about 99% removal.
If you are looking at removing as much as possible you need a De ionising cartridge after the RO unit.
Nev

 

[Camo6]

Yeah I looked into them but they were above my budget Nev. I only went with this one because it was not much more than carbon filters alone and I hadn't taken into consideration the slow flow rate. And I spent all my allowance buying stainless taps from some bloke in WA. h34r:

 

[Tex083]

As I said the only reason I use RODI water is because I have the system to produce it. Its in my basement with the brewery makes it all too easy.
As for what mabrungard had to say about my recomendations he can only offer his american opinion.
*CaCO3 comes in many forms and chalk is one but you can get CaCO3 from most home brew shops and it works.
*Baking Soda can be used, bake it first to drive off any H20. 100c for 30 mins should do it.
*The Hanna pH meter has a replacable probe so you can use it in the mash, it will give a real time pH rather than waiting for a sample to cool.
* I wasnt sprooking MY website I was just helping another homebrewer.

 

[djar007]

Digging up an old thread but have question. I read that you need to mix ro water with an amount of unfiltered water for the fermentation to work properly. Does anyone have rule of thumb as I plan a few brews over the weekend and have just set up my ro filter. I was thinking 75 ro 25 unfiltered. Would that be about right.

 

[manticle]

That would depend on the profile of what you are cutting it with and what you are aiming for. I believe it's only because RO water is deficient of all minerals, including beneficial ones so you can just look at adding beneficial ones back in. Melbourne water is calcium deficient and calcium is probably the number one good mineral.

 

[djar007]

Thanks manticle. I was wondering what other good ones I would be stripping out. I am aiming for a 5.1 pH for a steam beer and would like to start with all filtered water and add only what is needed. But i think i read Palmer saying that for a Pilsner he doesn't recommend straight ro water. Figured it would be same for the steam beer but having trouble finding out what aside from the calc I would need to add. Previously have just used Melbourne water and boiled to remove chlorine. Adjusted to suit pH for brew using either calcium chloride or calcium carbonate. I am just trying to be more careful with my ingredients but not sure if I am on the right path.

 

[manticle]

Calcium, zinc and magnesium. Magnesium should be provided by an all malt brew and zinc can be added as a salt or in the form of yeast nutrient. Main effect of zinc is during fermentation but calcium helps in the mash and boil too. Calcium and magnesium drop pH, calcium is more effective than magnesium at this. Also yeast nutrient and does a bunch of other wonderful things.

Sulphate to accentuate hop profile, chloride to accentuate malt.

Sodium can accentuate and round out flavour but use sparingly if at all.

Carbonates - forget about them, especially in pale beers. If you need to raise pH for any reason, there are other means and carbonatesare fairly insoluble unless in a very acidic environment anyway. Mash is acidic but not enough to effectively dissolve chalk.

First make sure mash pH is OK and calcium levels are good (50+ ppm - up to around 150 -200 from memory but would need to check notes).
If mash pH is too high, use calcium salts to drop. Use calcium sulphate and/or calcium chloride depending on how hoppy or malty you want the brew. Use brun water calculator or ez water calculator to work out amounts to add to the mash. Brun is more complicated but will probably give more accurate results. Avoid trying to replicate alleged historical water profiles - instead adjust the mash and possibly sparge water if necessary to get the beer that you want.

If you want a fuller explanation, the wiki is back up and I wrote a paper a while ago on mash chemistry which tries to explain the ins and outs in a logical sequence. I also recommend the brun water knowledge page which I think is one of the most comprehensive and well explained documents on the subject available to home brewers. Mine needs work (some diagrams, some re-ordering and a finished reference page) but it has helped some people. Wiki articles under water chemistry, scroll down to the end to find the linked doc. Let me know if you can't and I'll hunt it up.

 

[djar007]

Thank you very much. That is fantastic. Will read all that and try to digest it. That is really helpful and will keep me busy for a while trying to perfect it. Much appreciated manticle. Very informative and educational post. Regards dave.

 

[niftinev]

I'm more than happy with my unit, tds usually about 4-6ppm
just add calcium, zinc and magnesium to what brun water calc says
it may be slow but I just leave on the day before and waste water goes to garden
also used for drinking water and aquariums
filters cheap, picked up a box of carbon filters on ebay for 60 bucks. Will last my life out and ro filters are cheap at 40 smackers every 3-4 years
just check ro filter with tds meter and when readings increase I know its time to replace
the quickest way to **** your ro filter is by not using a carbon filter to remove chlorine which destroys the membrane of the ro

and it is a lot better than the **** (looks like they pump it out of the local pond) the council sends even though they spent millions on a new water plant here