Returning To The Fold

[Suds_Moustache]

I am about to put down a Cooper's Pale Ale (International) for the first time in over ten years.

I went and bought a starter kit today which includes everything except for bottles. The kit cost $70 and included a brew of your choice. I chose the Coopers because I used to make the Real Ale and it turned out ok (usually!)

However when reading a few of the threads here I cam across some unfamiliar terms.

Racking, conditioning or kegging (presumably swapping into a new keg at some stage during the process) and many of you have suggested (as did the advertising pamphlet I got with the kit) a temp range of 18-22 degrees.

However I never used to regulate temp except for in winter using an old blanket etc. I am in South- East QLD so the temp regularly gets warmer than 22 degrees. My beer turned out ok from memory. Is this a problem?

Also the different types of hops, yeast and finings are interesting as I used to just use whatever they give you in the brew kit for yeast. Trying to think back, I am sure it will come back to me about the exact process once I get started. My process was never too fancy: dump everything in the keg (usually used 1kg or so of sugar, not dextrose), wait for the temp to be right, add yeast direct to keg. Wait for airlock to stop bubbling and bottle the beer. Wait a month and then drink it. Obvuiously sterilising everything is paramount.
My kit came with dextrose (which I plan to use from now on).

So my questions are as follows:
what are the five most important factors/variables to make a reasonable beer and what are your trciks and tips.
Do I need an extra keg?
Are twist top longnecks ok (I would prefer CUB Crown Seals but they seem hard to come by)?
How close do all these beers taste to the "real thing" eg I have seen quite a few brew kits marketed as use this and add this and add that to get something like Tooheys New. If you get it right is it blindfold test material or is it "sort of" like the beer it's supposed to be.

Not that I care that much, I kinda like making something that is differnt to commercial beer...well not too different I spose!

Your thoughts?

 

[buttersd70]

So my questions are as follows:

1. what are the five most important factors/variables to make a reasonable beer and what are your trciks and tips.
2. Do I need an extra keg?
3. Are twist top longnecks ok (I would prefer CUB Crown Seals but they seem hard to come by)?
4. How close do all these beers taste to the "real thing" eg I have seen quite a few brew kits marketed as use this and add this and add that to get something like Tooheys New. If you get it right is it blindfold test material or is it "sort of" like the beer it's supposed to be.

Not that I care that much, I kinda like making something that is differnt to commercial beer...well not too different I spose!

Your thoughts?

Must be the night for ex brewers coming back into the fold....welcome, suds. to answer your questions.

1. sanitation, temperature control, sanitation, temperature control, and patience. And yes, 18-22 is much much better for ales than just ambient. The actual temperature depends on the yeast, some are better even cooler (especially lagers. They are better closer to 10), some have more character if they are done closer to 22. But for ales, if in doubt, 18-20 and you're on a winner.
2. I think you are confusing kegs with fermenters...kegs are for finished beer, attached to a tap and gas, for pouring like at the pub...but better. Do you need another fermenter? mm, not really. But; it allows you to do several things. It allows you to do more than one brew at a time, to build up stocks. It allows you to rack your beer transfer from one fermenter to another, so that it a) gets off all the trub, so it can be left to condition in the cold, or b)to bulk prime, which is where you add all the priming sugar for the batch and then immedately bottle, instead of putting the sugar in each bottle individualy. You don't need a second fermenter, but I don't think you'll ever regret getting one.
3. some people use twist tops, I prefer not to. So it's a bit of an opinion thing. But crown seals can be found if you look in the right places
4. At best, they are 'similar-ish'. At worse, they are nothing like it. However, that doesn't necessarily mean they will be bad beers, maybe just not what you were expecting.

Hope this helps. Read through previous threads adn the articles section, use the search function, and if you can't find an answer, post a question. :icon_cheers:

 

[Cube]

Goddam I replied with a "awesome O 2001" reply and with so much wit I creamed my pants.

Then I lost it by pressing 'dumbass' on my laptop.

So - I say

+1 to butters. You will be wise to listen to, ahem, the forum yoda.
MMkayyy

 

[staggalee]

Goddam I replied with a "awesome O 2001" reply and with so much wit I creamed my pants.

Then I lost it by pressing 'dumbass' on my laptop.

So - I say

+1 to butters. You will be wise to listen to, ahem, the forum yoda.
MMkayyy

:lol: :lol:
You shouldn`t be up at 1am posting beer forums.

stagga.

 

[pint of lager]

Twist tops are ok to be refilled, but you need a decent bench capper. Go to your local homebrew shop and buy a superautomatica. These will do any sized bottle as well as twist tops.

The cheaper wingcapper that comes with cheap kits will crack the threads. The basic wooden hammer on capper is also no good for twist tops.

Years ago, the word keg was often used for your fermenter. These days we now use the word keg for our dispensing vessels and the word fermenter for what we ferment beer in. You can never have enough fermenters.

If you have never seen a keg dispensing system, get along and check it out at your local homebrew shop. They are awesome. You only wash one keg when bottling, rather than 30 longnecks. You won't mix up the terms keg and fermenter either.

Tips and tricks, ferment at the right temp for your yeast (18 for ales, 10-12 for lagers with a true lager yeast) sanitation sanitation sanitation, join a local club, use good ingredients (start using extra malt, hops and specialty grains), keep reading the old posts on the forum as there is a huge amount of excellent information in there and keep enjoying your brews.

 

[dpadden]

Twist tops are ok to be refilled, but you need a decent bench capper. Go to your local homebrew shop and buy a superautomatica. These will do any sized bottle as well as twist tops.

I'm off to buy a new benchcapper on the weekend. Are the brigalow ones at Kmart any good, or would it be better to spend a couple more $ and go with the superautomatica?

 

[Gavo]

for the first time in over ten years.

You sound a little like me, however I was about 3 years between brews. Back then I did much the same, Kit + Kilo of sugar, wait till it stopped bubbling then bottle (in summer this took one week).
Butters stated the most important things in point 1 to make your brews better, if I would add one other thing I would say change the kit yeast for a better yeast eg. US05 for a clean ale yeast. you are already doing a major improvement by using dextrose rather than sugar.
That being said, don't get worried about all of the the terminology and unfamiliar terms all at once. Get brewing using the basic improvements and instructions and build your knowledge and practices from there. When I started brewing again, halfway through last year, I started at the same point that you are now. Thanks to this community, and the great help and info to be found, I have vastly improved my brewing and will keep doing so. I don't worry or care if my beer turns out like x beer, I am more interested in brewing a beer that suits me.

Be careful though as this brewing "hobby" can turn out to be an obsession and the rabbit hole just keeps on going.

Welcome to the AHB community and happy brewing.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Gavo]

I'm off to buy a new benchcapper on the weekend. Are the brigalow ones at Kmart any good, or would it be better to spend a couple more $ and go with the superautomatica?

I have the superautomatica, I haven't used anything else. I bought it second hand and well worn, it works great and is quick and easy to use. My father in-law once told me that the price is long forgotten when a good quality item is still being enjoyed.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[crundle]

For making Coopers Pale Ale, you can't beat using the yeast from a real Coopers Pale Ale - you will be happy!

Crundle

 

[raven19]

some people use twist tops, I prefer not to. So it's a bit of an opinion thing. But crown seals can be found if you look in the right places

Coopers lonk necks are crown seals. I tend to use them plus twist top stubbies, and have had no issues. I Have always used a bench capper though.

+1 to butters. You will be wise to listen to, ahem, the forum yoda.

+1 Butters is da man!

Twist tops are ok to be refilled, but you need a decent bench capper. Go to your local homebrew shop and buy a superautomatica. These will do any sized bottle as well as twist tops.

+1 as above.

And... Welcome back to the wonderful world of Home Brewing!

 

[Offline]

I wouldnt just go bottling just because it stops bubbling either.
Occasionally the yeast can become inactive before finishing the job and more commonly the fermenter can have a small (or large) air leak causing the air lock to stop bubbling before fermentation has finished.
Either way you will end up with too much fermentable material in the bottles and over carbonated beer or worse bottle bombs.
Use a hydrometer or similar to determine when it is time to bottle

 

[cdbrown]

Welcome back home Suds.

A good way to get back into it is to make a very simple straight forward kit brew - worry about extract, grains, hops and other yeasts for later. This will give a benchmark for your beer as well to show that even though this brew may be good it "generally" won't be as good as when you start adding other ingredients and basically making the beer your own. Then you can look at using kits as a base with some additional hopping and extract, chuck in some grains that only need to sit in warm water for a while, ditch the kit and do all extract/grain and then get more gear to make partials and all grain. I'm enjoying playing around with kits, extract, grain and hops at the moment.

Temp control can be easily done using an esky which is big enough to fit the fermenter, some frozen bottles and damp towels or an old fridge that provides insulation and can keep the inside relatively cool.

Please please please do not rely on the airlock - in fact do what I and many other people do, take the o-ring from the lid, put the lid in the shed, place some glad wrap over the top of the fermenter and push the o-ring over the thread to keep it in place. That way you can see in the top of it to check for froth (krausen) and condensation. Get a decent hydrometer - the one I got with the kit only measures up to 1.040 which was ok for the first brew, but soon realised most of the starting gravs are much higher than that and got one that has a huge range.

 

[Bribie G]

TEMPERATURE CONTROL IN SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND
​

Welcome back. Also in SEQ. A few things have changed in the last ten or fifteen years. I was out of brewing for fifteen so I know where you are coming from. Back in the old days in SEQ (I actually ran a home brew shop years ago) it was a given truth that you didn't brew in the winter because it was too cold and the brewing season was September to May. That was because nearly everyone did kits and kilos, or malt extract and a few hops and the yeasts that came on the top of the tin or the ones generally available (mostly Brigalow) were all purpose ale yeasts that could tolerate fairly high temperatures but stopped stone dead in the cold weather.

If you are brewing in a shed or garage in SEQ and you get weeks of 8 degree nights it's difficult to brew with those kits and yeasts. It didn't help that, before Coopers got big, most of the HB stuff was actually manufactured in Queensland by Brigalow or Sundowner or Gympie Gold, remember them, and yeasts / instructions tailored accordingly . I'm sure that Grant Sampson of Morgans either started off with Brigalow himself or the now defunct Sundowner. I recognise the name.

Now it's all changed, a lot of brewers now use far better yeasts to get better beers - even if doing just a tin it's very common now to chuck the kit yeast and use a better one, which comes in all sorts of weird code names that you will get used to and learn to love like your family after a while S-04, US-05, WYeast1768 .... the list goes on and on but the penalty is that each of these yeasts works best within a specified temperature range, so temp control is something very important nowadays in a way that it wasn't fifteen years ago. It has also turned home brewing on the head and most of us now look forward to the winter as the brewing golden months and dread the return of Summer.

My advice at the moment would be to pick a spot where the general temperature is as even and cool as possible. I even know a guy in Bris who has his fermenter in the shower in his ensuite because that's the most consistently cool place in the house, and churns out drinkable BrewCraft and Coopers kits. He's a bachelor so can get away with it :lol: Until you get back up to speed I would just use the kit yeast, which is a forgiving all purpose ale yeast in most cases. I would go for Morgans IMHO rather than Coopers.

If you decide to stay brewing then the fun bit starts: I keep all my ferments (ales and lagers) under 20 degrees in a dead fridge I got for free and just use frozen PET bottles, works a treat. Other guys buy a dedicated fridge and do temp control with a probe and a device called a 'fridgemate' that turns the power on and off.

Once you get the hang of temp control you can branch out to more exotic and better yeasts etc.

Happy Brewing

PS what area? Your'e bound to have AHB members nearby.

 

[olde]

That Pale Ale International recommends using 1kg of Brew Enhancer 2. I do that for visitors as it turns out a very palatable brew that's not too offensive to their lack of appreciation for hops and flavours.
I use US-05, ice bottles in a tub of water to keep the temps to as close to 20C as I can in this heat. Keep it cool, sanitise everything twice, and follow these guys tips because it works.
Welcome back, you're gonna love it. Homebrew is no longer the poor cousin, even the tins knock out a very decent beer if treated right.

 

[boingk]

I'm off to buy a new benchcapper on the weekend. Are the brigalow ones at Kmart any good, or would it be better to spend a couple more $ and go with the superautomatica?

I think that the Brigalow ones are actually Superautomatica in a different box. If you can't see on the box from the image, have a sneak inside and it should say what it is on the neck from the height adjustment to the actual capping mechanism.

I have the superautomatica, I haven't used anything else. I bought it second hand and well worn, it works great and is quick and easy to use. My father in-law once told me that the price is long forgotten when a good quality item is still being enjoyed.

+1 on this. I had a wing-capper that I got with my Tooheys start-up kit, but I have only used it once or twice and it does indeed crack the necks of bottles. I believe another similar saying is "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." Somone has it as their signature on here, and its pretty true I reckon.

That Pale Ale International recommends using 1kg of Brew Enhancer 2. I do that for visitors as it turns out a very palatable brew that's not too offensive to their lack of appreciation for hops and flavours.
I use US-05, ice bottles in a tub of water to keep the temps to as close to 20C as I can in this heat. Keep it cool, sanitise everything twice, and follow these guys tips because it works.
Welcome back, you're gonna love it. Homebrew is no longer the poor cousin, even the tins knock out a very decent beer if treated right.

+481,962 on this one!

a) Visitors have responded best, in my experience, to very simple brews - usually just the tin and brew enchancer 2.
b] US-05 dried yeast is the bomb, very clean and crisp and doesn't disapoint.
c) The advice from everyone here is killer, I might not be brewing now if I hadn't found this site.
d) Going from a good, simple brew of mine to a real-deal Coopers Pale makes me cringe, you honestly can make great beer with a bit of know-how.

Welcome, hope you enjoy the ride - boingk

 

[Goofinder]

I think that the Brigalow ones are actually Superautomatica in a different box. If you can't see on the box from the image, have a sneak inside and it should say what it is on the neck from the height adjustment to the actual capping mechanism.

My Brigalow Kmart capper says Superautomatica on it. I opened up the box to check before buying it though.

 

[Cube]

You shouldn`t be up at 1am posting beer forums.

stagga.

Tell me about it. I started a game of poker on poker stars about 11PM ... a 45 player sit'n'go.... went down to the last three or so and I realised I was plonked and it was 0100

Love getting in the money :beerbang:

 

[Suds_Moustache]

Well I must say this is one of the friendliest and most helpful forums I have come across.

Thanks to all who have contributed their experience to this thread, as it turned out exactly as I had hoped: a jumping off point to get started with some bits of advice that will help get me thinking about the variables and point me in the right direction as far as newer developments in HB.

Some insightful comments - appreciate it.

Ok well all that's left is to get myself some bottles and jump in the deep end. I haven't had any luck getting Crown Seals so far (kicking myself that I threw out my collection from years ago, but marriage can have that effect I spose! )
I have seen a few lots on Ebay but usually only in the Southern states. Is there anywhere you can buy them new or do I have to drink a couple of cartons of Coopers to get the bottles I need? I guess they pop up in the classifieds from time to time - might have a look this weekend.

Thanks again - looking forward to sharing my progress and reading about other's successes (and challenges!) here in the near future.

 

[buttersd70]

If drinking Coopers to get the bottles, my advice would be to drink 3 times the amount that you will need. Just cos it's coopers.

You could always go the PET bottle route, until you can get some glass. I am definately a glass fan, but sometimes it's handy to have a few PET bottles floating around, anyway...

 

[clean brewer]

I am in South- East QLD

Hey Mo,

Where abouts in SEQ are you??