Refilling Sodastream & Paintball Cylinders

[TheLightRoom]

Hey all,

My sodastream adapter is on the way, and during the waiting time, I got to thinking, dangerous I know. I have a standard type-30 -> type-30 "refill station" for my smaller 540g bottle. So I was wondering, could you use the sodastream adapter to refill a Sodastream or Paintball cylinder?

I know the process to refill, so that's all fine (yes my 6kg tank lives upside down for some of it's life - and yes it can be dangerous, if you don't follow safety procedures, and if you don't weigh the bottle, or leave sufficient head space for heat expansion).

So process of filling aside - I can't see a good reason against it, but does anyone else know of a reason the adapter might not work for refilling? Thanks in advance!

Cheers, Nathan.

PS. yep - I know that I can get specific paintball refill stations which are designed with the CGA-320 thread and pin depressor mechanism, just don't want to invest in that if I can avoid it. Cheers!

 

[TheLightRoom]

Ok, secondary question on this. As I was away last week, got my mail & parcels all in one go. My sodastream adapter turned up!

Are all sodastream adapters 'created equal'? I've seen pics here on AHB from when these were new.... umm 2004-2006? They had the adjustable length centre valve depressor. However mine arrived and it has a conical depressor with hole for the CO2 about a third of the way down the side of the 'cone'. (sorry can post pics later)

Just wondering if this cone depressor the 'current norm' for sodastream adapters?

As no-one else seems to refill sodastream bottles in this fashion, I'll give it a go and let you know! Now. Where has my refill station gotten to?

 

[Andyd]

I bought a paintball filler years ago and it sat in the drawer until very recently after seeing all the scare posts about the dangers of filling - one of the few things I have a reasonable amount of careful respect for is compressed gas.

That said, after a chat with one of the blokes in the brew club I finally pulled it out, and it worked without any problem. I couldn't get the fill weight on the first fill, reaching only 280g of fill - but I figure that's a good thing. If I only ever fill to the first attempt there shouldn't be a problem.

I'd still rather be on the other side of a sheet of tank armour from the bottle while filling, but I'm now happy enough to continue filling.

All that said, I wouldn't personally recommend anyone going down the same road, but if you do decide to, it goes without saying - use extreme caution

Andy

 

[TheLightRoom]

Thanks Andy - I've seen from other threads you have an idea what you are talking about, so you may know this, (ie. don't mean to "teach you how to suck eggs"), - are you pre-chilling the cylinder at all? CO2 flows to the coldest area, fill tank should be room temp, and either chill your empty by putting it in the freezer, or part filling then burping? Pre-chilled should make it easier to fill to the correct weight (with a tolerance of between 5-10% below water weight for heat expansion) .



Added: oh yeah - I've filled paint bottles a few times, but a VERY long time ago. So know the deal - but revisiting it all older - everything seems so much more dangerous. Gloves & eye protection were a given - but I like the tank armour idea.

 

[Andyd]

Thanks Andy - I've seen from other threads you have an idea what you are talking about, so you may know this, (ie. don't mean to "teach you how to suck eggs"), - are you pre-chilling the cylinder at all? CO2 flows to the coldest area, fill tank should be room temp, and either chill your empty by putting it in the freezer, or part filling then burping? Pre-chilled should make it easier to fill to the correct weight (with a tolerance of between 5-10% below water weight for heat expansion) .



Added: oh yeah - I've filled paint bottles a few times, but a VERY long time ago. So know the deal - but revisiting it all older - everything seems so much more dangerous. Gloves & eye protection were a given - but I like the tank armour idea.

Yeah - I did the chill drill, but still couldn't get more than 280G in the first fill. But I figure that's not really a problem, since it only means I need to refill the tanks a little more frequently - a small price to pay for a little insurance

Andy

 

[tripo]

Hey Dudes,

As a paintball field employee, your doing it all wrong, I fill up to 600 cylinders every weekend and have never put them in the freezer. I think you problem is that you are doing it all wrong.

Two proceedures for doing this.

1 - From empty, no gas @ all. i.e brand new, or fully purged
A paintball CO2 can is 28 ounces once full, get your scales and mark that out on it, weigh you cylinder and find out how much is approximately in there. Get your gas reg, and attach it all up, if your can is nearly empty fill it up (Reg purge closed, and both can nipple screwed down and big cylinder on) with what ever the pressure differential is between your big cylinder and the can. Move on to the rest of the process.

2 - From partially full.
To get a full fill in one hit you need to lower the pressure in the paint can and chill it at the same time. With the bottle off and the reg purge set to open screw down your paint can on nipple, once the bottle is vented appropriately it will cool right down and most of the time develop frost (depending on the climate you are in). The trick is to watch the gas coming out of the purge, initially it will be white an cloudy, then it willreduce down until you can see through the middle of the jet (approx 1" from the purge nipple). When there, shut the purge valve off and open up the big cylinder. you then set the paint can on the scales and watch it fill right up to the full 28 ounces, as a rule of thumb you should only fill it to 90% as on a hot day you will set off the burst disk and scare the piss out of everybody for about 500m.... Replacing burst disks is not too difficult, and DONT use cut up Coke cans, dont be tight and pay the $4 for 1000....

 

[Andyd]

Hey Tripo - that's great info!

Can you shoot a couple of photos of your filling setup and post them up so people can compare with their setups (ok, my set up )

Cheers!

Andy

 

[TheLightRoom]

Thanks mate, good to hear from a pro! As you are probably aware from the thread, we don't do this for coin so any tips from someone who does 600 in a weekend are great!

However, be careful making blanket statements like "A paintball CO2 can is 28 ounces once full" as you more than I would know, they come in various sizes: 4oz, 9oz, 12oz, 16oz, 20oz, 24oz and then some. Are you are referring to a 20oz cylinder? 20oz is the most common size, so it's good to have a benchmark. Is there a percentage of fill weight rule for the other sizes?

I know that the empty weight is normally stamped on the bottle - but I, for one, will be using two different sizes for different applications: 4oz & 20oz. So I'd normally go to fully empty, weigh the cylinder, do a check against stamped weight, zero my scales with empty cylinder and go from there.

Pics of what I'll be using mine for (not my setup, yet):

20oz

4oz

 

[TheLightRoom]

Hey Tripo - that's great info!

Can you shoot a couple of photos of your filling setup and post them up so people can compare with their setups (ok, my set up )

Cheers!

Andy

Hey Andy
you invert your cylinder to fill don't you? I've not filled without a fill cylinder before, so am just a little wary of an upside down 6kg tank o'gas
Cheers, Nathan.

 

[Andyd]

Hi Nathan,

Yes I do to a point. I fill from a 22kg tank, so I don't fully invert - just enough to make sure the dip-tube is immersed.

I've thought about building a bottle rig on a spindle that would let me easily invert the bottle, but that's just going over the top I suspect

Andy

 

[TheLightRoom]

Hey Andy,

Is anything really over the top?

Wow 22kg, that'd be tricky With me, due to current fridge size restrictions, I'm actually considering using paintball cylinders for everything for a while. So considering options like this one sound better than getting a dedicated fill tank. For now - tipping the cylinder should be good, thanks for the tip Just mindful that I only have two hands - do you tie your main tank off somehow so you can wrangle the taps and little cylinder?

cheers, Nathan.

 

[Ben Crossman]

whoops. can t delete post...

 

[TheLightRoom]

Remember, the tank he is filling from has a dip tube.

there are a few "he's" here - you mean tripo? Or Andy?

tripo's tank would indeed be a 'filling tank' with dip tube.

Cheers, Nathan.

 

[Andyd]

Hey Andy,

Is anything really over the top?

Wow 22kg, that'd be tricky With me, due to current fridge size restrictions, I'm actually considering using paintball cylinders for everything for a while. So considering options like this one sound better than getting a dedicated fill tank. For now - tipping the cylinder should be good, thanks for the tip Just mindful that I only have two hands - do you tie your main tank off somehow so you can wrangle the taps and little cylinder?

cheers, Nathan.

I cut a hole in the side of a crate and rest the bottom of the cylinder in that... the neck sits on the ground.

 

[TheLightRoom]

I cut a hole in the side of a crate and rest the bottom of the cylinder in that... the neck sits on the ground.

Well that's practical.