Recipe Check - Russian Imperial Stout

[petesbrew]

Hi all,
Planning for a RIS for my next AG, and i just want to bounce this recipe off you guys.
I've based it around The RIS recipe in Jamil's book (pg 175,176),
and sub'd some ingredients for what I've got in stock.
Not sure about the Chinook replacing the Horizon though...
Anyway, all comments welcome.
Cheers in advance
Pete

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

13-F Stout, Russian Imperial Stout

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.114
Min IBU: 50 Max IBU: 100
Min Clr: 59 Max Clr: 95 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.43
Anticipated OG: 1.095 Plato: 22.674
Anticipated EBC: 112.1
Anticipated IBU: 81.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 2.00 L Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 25.00 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.087 SG 21.00 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind As Is.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 15 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
82.5 8.60 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.039 3
6.7 0.70 kg. Roasted Barley America 1.028 887
4.3 0.45 kg. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 236
2.2 0.23 kg. Carahell Malt Germany 1.034 24
4.3 0.45 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 750

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
43.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 68.2 60 min.
57.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 7.3 10 min.
57.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 6.1 1 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast US-56 SafAle American Ale

 

[Quintrex]

I'd definitely replace the chinook with something smoother if you want it to be drinkable a bit earlier. Plust the grapefruit will probably stick out and taste fairly harsh. How bout using cascade, if you have any, cascade is delicious in a stout.

 

[jayse]

I am sure Jamils recipe should make a great beer however I don't like the look of the specialB all that much in there. I'd go amber malt instead personally.

snipped>
........cascade is delicious in a stout.

<_<

 

[petesbrew]

I do have cascade handy, but I'll be saving that for an APA. I think I'll just pick up some Horizon.

 

[neonmeate]

i've got an RIS in secondary atm with special B (although half that amount) and i think it's tasting promising so far... but i'm going for a sweeter sort of RIS. i could imagine special B clashing awfully with chinook in a beer like that, and in fact i'm not a fan of westcoast US imperials with massive grapefruit-hops like rasputin, rogue, stone. if you like that sort of thing then go for it but it's going to be a fairly american tasting sort of stout so you'd want to like the idea of drinking 23L of that. some people love cascade and chinook and stuff in stouts but i aint one of them.

i would also let the malt do the work with the aroma and leave out all that styrian at the finish. let the roast through.

 

[petesbrew]

i've got an RIS in secondary atm with special B (although half that amount) and i think it's tasting promising so far... but i'm going for a sweeter sort of RIS. i could imagine special B clashing awfully with chinook in a beer like that, and in fact i'm not a fan of westcoast US imperials with massive grapefruit-hops like rasputin, rogue, stone. if you like that sort of thing then go for it but it's going to be a fairly american tasting sort of stout so you'd want to like the idea of drinking 23L of that. some people love cascade and chinook and stuff in stouts but i aint one of them.

i would also let the malt do the work with the aroma and leave out all that styrian at the finish. let the roast through.

Thanks for the detailed input, Neon. Reckon I'll go back to Horizon.
Also the later additions are as per the original recipe, except I've sub'd Styrian for normal goldings. Haven't used goldings for a while, is there "that" much difference between the two?

 

[t2000kw]

Wow. For a moment I thought you were using 10.43 pounds, not kilograms. I was thinking that you were going to have a very weak RIS.

Whatever you use for your RIS, I hope it works out well for you.

The recipe below has worked well for me (it's not my recipe, source is provided below), so I'll post it in case its of some use to anyone here. It is a good one, but it's in pounds, not Metric units. It doesn't state the batch size, so I assumed it was a US brewer and that he used a 5 gallon (more or less standard in the US) batch. It turned out to be my greatest achievement in brewing, probably ever. The recipe might give you some ideas. Maybe not, too.

I substituted for the hops, used American crystal and 2-row malt instead of English, and possibly some 6-row malt in one of the batches at some point. I didn't keep records back then but I guess I'll have to start doing that. I think I used Perle hops for all of the hops since I had a lot of that a year or two ago. It looks like it would be difficult to mess this recipe up, though I'm sure someone could. The amount of darker malts seemed to be perfect. I've made this at least twice.

Also, this was my first all grain brew! I had to use 3 or 4 separate pots on the kitchen stove to do the boil, and sparge 1/2 of the grains, then the other 1/2. I didn't have the capacity to sparge the whole mess, and I still don't, but I hope to change that this year.

I used a dry yeast, don't remember which one, possibly Red Star ale yeast since it was a few years ago when I first made this. I probably skipped the Irish moss, but I have Whirlfloc or something like it now, so I use it when I remember I have it.

As for the comment about using Cascade instead of Crystal to avoid the grapefruit flavor, Cascade has a citrusy flavor. Is Chinook a lot more citrusy than Cascade?

I believe the malt aroma overwhelmed the hop aroma, and the bitterness is more important, but I could be wrong. Anyway, the next time I make this I should have plenty of Cascade hops to use in it. Mine are doing quite well in the garden and it looks like I might be able to get 2 or more harvests from the bines this year. Maybe use one of my other hops for bittering.

Don

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeltsin's Best Imperial Stout
http://brewery.org/cm3/recs/05_85.html

Classification: stout, Russian Imperial stout, all-grain

Source: David P. Brockington ([email protected]), r.c.b., 10/8/93

Although I would hesistate to compare it to Moss Bay Stout. In fact, I would hesistate to classify Moss Bay as an Imperial Stout, but that's neither here nor there.

Misc notes: I used hops that I had on hand at the time; I would recommend replacing the Tettnanger with Fuggles, perhaps, and also maybe the cascade with Kent Goldings. These swaps would make it a bit more true to style. Also, don't be surprised if your gravity is higher than that listed; my extraction rates are somewhat below average.


* 15 lbs. English Pale 2-Row malted barley
* 2 lbs. English Crystal Malt
* 1 lb. Roasted Barley
* 1/2 lb. Black Patent Malt
* 1/2 lb. Chocolate Malt
* 4 oz. Cascade hops (6.5 AAU) (bittering/full boil)
* 2 oz Tettnanger hops (3.4 AAU) (flavor/20 minute)
* 2 oz Tettnanger hops (3.4 AAU) (aroma/1 minute)
* 1 tsp. Irish Moss (@30 minute mark)
* Wyeast London Ale (#1028) liquid yeast, pitch with at least a one pint starter

 

[Mikedub]

Any thoughts about this combo of spec malts for a RIS, instead of Special B I've gone for biscuit malt and bumped up the crystal 120 a bit. Have not used biscuit before is 5% reasonable or can I push it more
OG: 1.098 SG

FG: 1.021 SG

SRM: 117.2 EBC

IBU: 88.4 IBUs



6.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 58.0 %

2.00 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 2 19.3 %

0.70 kg Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC) Grain 3 6.8 %

0.50 kg Biscuit Malt Grain 4 4.8 %

0.50 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 5 4.8 %

0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 6 3.9 %

0.25 kg Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 7 2.4 %

40.35 g Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 8 54.0 IBUs

40.00 g Pride of Ringwood [9.00 %] - Boil 90.0 m Hop 9 34.4 IBUs

Mash @ 66

Pitching on a cake of US05

I'm BIAB so will probably end up scaling the base malt back and pimping my ride with some LME late in the boil (shh, don't tell Beerfingers)

 

[Mikedub]

just bumping this as looking for thoughts about using biscuit and crystal 120 in my first attempt at an RIS

Any thoughts about this combo of spec malts for a RIS, instead of Special B I've gone for biscuit malt and bumped up the crystal 120 a bit. Have not used biscuit before is 5% reasonable or can I push it more
OG: 1.098 SG

FG: 1.021 SG

SRM: 117.2 EBC

IBU: 90 BUs



6.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 58.0 %

2.00 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 2 19.3 %

0.70 kg Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC) Grain 3 6.8 %

0.50 kg Biscuit Malt Grain 4 4.8 %

0.50 kg Chocolate Malt (689.5 EBC) Grain 5 4.8 %

0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 6 3.9 %

0.25 kg Black (Patent) Malt (985.0 EBC) Grain 7 2.4 %

bitter to 90 IBU with Target and POR Mash @ 66

Pitching on a cake of US05

 

[ledgenko]

with this RIS ... have you considered the use of a molasses ??

I want to do a vanilla stout .. how much vanilla bean do you think i shouldrop in ... in primary fermentation ?? at the end ??

 

[Nashmandu]

Hi all,
Planning for a RIS for my next AG, and i just want to bounce this recipe off you guys.
I've based it around The RIS recipe in Jamil's book (pg 175,176),
and sub'd some ingredients for what I've got in stock.
Not sure about the Chinook replacing the Horizon though...
Anyway, all comments welcome.
Cheers in advance
Pete

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

13-F Stout, Russian Imperial Stout

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.114
Min IBU: 50 Max IBU: 100
Min Clr: 59 Max Clr: 95 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.43
Anticipated OG: 1.095 Plato: 22.674
Anticipated EBC: 112.1
Anticipated IBU: 81.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 2.00 L Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 25.00 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.087 SG 21.00 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind As Is.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 15 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
82.5 8.60 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.039 3
6.7 0.70 kg. Roasted Barley America 1.028 887
4.3 0.45 kg. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 236
2.2 0.23 kg. Carahell Malt Germany 1.034 24
4.3 0.45 kg. JWM Chocolate Malt Australia 1.032 750

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
43.00 g. Chinook Pellet 13.00 68.2 60 min.
57.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 7.3 10 min.
57.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 6.1 1 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast US-56 SafAle American Ale

I dont know where you have got the malt bill from or whether you have thought of it yourself but it seems weird...roasted barley, special b, carahell are bit part players at best.....70% pale malt and some cara munich and munich malt...possibly vienna, then the chocolate/black malts to achieve colour and roast character are the basics and then you can consider belgian malts etc for extra complexity.

 

[beers]

...roasted barley, special b, carahell are bit part players at best.....

:huh:

 

[petesbrew]

For an update, as I was the OP, I don't think I even made this one!

Made a threecan with some out of date cans around that time, but for now a RIS is still on the cards.

 

[Mikedub]

My RIS has stalled at 1.032 (from 1.090), It was pitched on a US05 cake and fermented around 16 degrees for 7 days,

Have roused it and raised temp to 20 for a few days, have also pitched a pack of S33 but no change in gravity.

Base was Plis, Munich, and 2 tins of LME, spec malts crystal biscuit RB and choc around 4-6 % each.

Im wondering if it was the goo that reduced its fermentability, on the flip side the IBUs are around 120 so it supports the high FG for the time being, though wondering how that will play out over time in the bottle.

Any suggestions appreciated

 

[Where's Jim?]

How long has it been fermenting for?

I've currently got an RIS that's been sitting in the fermenter for 6 or so weeks. It went from 1.100 to 1.028 pretty quickly. I decided it was still a tad too high and after pitching some more yeast it has since very slowly dropped down to 1.025. It was racked to a secondary after a few weeks so the time on the bulk of the yeast cake wasn't too long.

If it's only been fermenting away for two weeks or so, I'd say just be a little more patient. It's a big beer. You really don't want to go ahead a bottle it if it hasn't finished fermenting. Especially if you plan to age it for a long time.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showarticle=130
This article is worth reading if you haven't already. Try the fast ferment test or racking to another vessel.

1.032 is a few points too high for an RIS IMO.

 

[Mikedub]

Cheers Where's Jim, its been over 3 and a half weeks now, so should think about racking, but will try the fast ferment from that article, good article Manticle

 

[tiprya]

Are you guys planning on adding more yeast when(if) you bottle?

I am brewing a RIS this weekend, and was planning on primary for 3/4 weeks and then bulk aging for ~7 weeks in secondary.

After this amount of time I would expect to have to add yeast with bottling sugar to ensure carbonation - but I've never aged a beer this long.

Any thoughts?

 

[Where's Jim?]

This RIS is also a first for me too.

I won't be adding yeast when I bottle (which should be really soon) as I think the yeast will eventually do it's thing and carb it up over time, it just may take a lot longer than the usual two week wait.

I will however, be bottling a couple in PET bottles so I can check the carbonation levels by how hard the bottles become (or don't become) and I'll figure out what to do if it over carbs or under carbs when it comes time to cross that bridge.

EDIT: On second though, I think my fermentation schedule has actually worked out to be similar to your 3/4 primary and 7 week secondary... I just hadn't realised it had been that long already!

I should also add that 1056 was pitched as the primary yeast and then when it all slowed down to 1.028, we added a bit of champagne yeast to get it going just that little bit further - this is a collaboration brew and not my idea as I have no experience with champagne yeast but it seems to have worked alright so far. So yeah, two very hardy yeasts in my RIS will probably do the carbonation job just fine.