Qabc 2011 Results

[Ross]

moot as it may be, it is an interesting debate, and I wish to further it for my better understanding of your points.

Let's give a hypothetical:

Mr Bob Bobson, is a commercial brewer at Bob Brewery. During a brewday, he collects 20L of wort from the kettle and takes it home to ferment. Is this a homebrewed or commercially brewed beer? It is my assertion that this is still a commercially brewed beer, not just because it was brewed for commercial purposes by the brewer himself, but also because it was not an amateur endeavour.

Exacactly the same argument I put to the AABC delegates & not one of them agreed with me! Under the AABC rules the head brewer at Feral may take home the gold medal winning Hophog wort, ferment it out & enter in the amateur comp. Whether you agree, like it or not, they are the current rules.

Anyway, please start a new thread if you wish to discuss the rules of the AABC, as it's no longer relevant to this thread & would be good to see it discused as a general debate.

Cheers Ross

P.S. congrats again to all the place getters, make sure you get all your qualifying entries into the nationals.

 

[bconnery]

moot as it may be, it is an interesting debate, and I wish to further it for my better understanding of your points.

Let's give a hypothetical:

Mr Bob Bobson, is a commercial brewer at Bob Brewery. During a brewday, he collects 20L of wort from the kettle and takes it home to ferment. Is this a homebrewed or commercially brewed beer? It is my assertion that this is still a commercially brewed beer, not just because it was brewed for commercial purposes by the brewer himself, but also because it was not an amateur endeavour.

The rules state that brew on premises are allowed in the competition. Now, given that there are such establishments that allow one to formulate one's own recipe and take a heavy involvement in the actual brewing process, one might suggest that this rule is a fair one. However, if the proprietor of such an establishment enters beers made with kits produced for commercial distribution, I assert that that doesn't satisfy the amateur component of the competition, and as such shouldn't be allowed.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on the hypothetical, whether that changes your view on Ross' QABC entries, and why or why not.

It comes down to the amateur vs commercial debate. My opinion is that it doesn't matter what you do for a living, you should be allowed to enter. So just because Ross is a commercial brewer he should be allowed to enter beers.

I believe that your first hypothetical is essentially what a FWK kit is. 20L of wort taking directly from a commercial brewery.
Whether it is packaged for a while and purchased by someone or taken straight home in a cube is by the by to me.
As such I believe they should be excluded from the competition. That is my firm opinion.
However, the rules state that they aren't.
I believe Ross's beers should never have been allowed, but the current rules don't prevent them as I see it.

As to the 2nd most brew on premise don't really have people taking an active involvement. Most people barely turn up except to bottle/keg and the work is done by the staff. I believe they should also be excluded.
But that's also a finished beer brewed on premise, as opposed to a FWK, which in this case was produced at a premise that happens to be both a brew on premise and a commercial brewery.

I think any beer that is made using pre-hopped extract, be it FWK or kit, should be excluded from the competition, or at least the prizes.
Ditto where the beer itself is made on commercial premise.

Extract beers made using unhopped extract should be allowed.

 

[bonj]

Anyway, please start a new thread if you wish to discuss the rules of the AABC, as it's no longer relevant to this thread & would be good to see it discused as a general debate.

New thread started here.

 

[yum beer]

I am outside of Qld and as such dont give a rats who wins,,,,

but its seems to me that if Ross is the one making the FWK(commercially) and selling them commercially then he ISNT an amateur brewer...simple.

Also, correct me if Im wrong but is Craftbrewer a sponsor...if so surely this prevents Ross from entering....it does for any other comp of any kind.


Gotta say though it clearly shows that Ross's FWK's are certainly worth the purchase price. but making one of these makes you a fermenter not a brewer..

Nothing personal Ross, if the rules allow you to enter good on ya', but maybe they need to be looked at for the sake of parity.

 

[bconnery]

but its seems to me that if Ross is the one making the FWK(commercially) and selling them commercially then he ISNT an amateur brewer...simple.

But the rules don't prevent professional brewers from entering. And in my opinion nor should they.

Ross, and I can think of at least one other on here who also fits this description, is an excellent homebrewer, who happens to work at/run a brewery.
They should not in anyway be prevented from entering in my opinion. It's a question of how they make the beer in my book, not what they happen to do for a living...

 

[argon]

I fully support Ross' entries of FWKs into the QABC.


Have a real think about it in context of his position in regards to AABC. Carpet bombing for the right reasons - proactive change.


I was initially taken aback by the Ross' results in the QABC and somewhat felt that it wasn't the right thing to do, regardless of his position for not supporting the entry of FWKs in competition. I thought it may have unfairly impacted on the other entrants.

However, upon reflection and having a better handle on Ross' position in regards to the AABC committee, it feels as if this is the only way the discussion is going to take place amongst the brewing community. 22 entries is clearly carpet-bombing and in my opinion, it's clear to see that a statement is being made. Especially considering that for anyone who has actually seen the Bachus Brewery in action producing wort, could hardly attribute Ross with anything more than supervision.


So my position is that i support what Ross has done (on purpose or not, i'm not sure <_< ). The issue has certainly been highlighted and it's good to see that robust debate coming forth.

Edit: added stuff

 

[AndrewQLD]

Congrats to all the winners, and I do mean ALL, obviously well deserved . And I think it's a travesty that Ross feels he has to surrender his placings, he entered within the rules and fully deserves his place as Champion Brewer, I take my hat off to you Ross, your a true gentleman.

Andrew

 

[spaced]

Congrats to all the winners, and I do mean ALL, obviously well deserved . And I think it's a travesty that Ross feels he has to surrender his placings, he entered within the rules and fully deserves his place as Champion Brewer, I take my hat off to you Ross, your a true gentleman.

Andrew

#This

It's within the rules, he won fair and square. Take up the issue with the rule, not with the brewer.

 

[yum beer]

But the rules don't prevent professional brewers from entering. And in my opinion nor should they.

so your happy for Little Creatures, Murrays, Four Pines, I could go on...to enter 'amatuer' brew comps.

There are comps for commercial beer....lets keep them there.

 

[bonj]

#This

It's within the rules, he won fair and square. Take up the issue with the rule, not with the brewer.

The specific issue that I raised was that as the proprietor of the commercial brewery that produced the kits, it is not amateur brewing. The issue is with the application of the rules, or the interpretation of the rules, not with Ross himself.

Ross have proven on a number of occasions that as an amateur brewer, he is very accomplished and has taken out the QABC before. However, I do not think that his entry of his own commercial FWKs falls within the interpretation of the rules. Given that we do not have an AABC judiciary to make those interpretations, I feel it is up to the community to make a decision.

Ross has decided to make the decision himself, and I believe it was the right one.

 

[bconnery]

so your happy for Little Creatures, Murrays, Four Pines, I could go on...to enter 'amatuer' brew comps.

There are comps for commercial beer....lets keep them there.

Yes. If the brewer from that company makes the beer at home.
I don't think they should be able to enter a bottle of Little Creatures off the bottling line into a comp. That's not what I am talking about.

But if the brewer goes home and makes a cracking American Pale Ale then I don't see why they shouldn't be able to enter.

 

[Bribie G]

Does TB enter comps I wonder? What about the forklift driver at XXXX ? (who knows, there may be a couple who brew at home)

 

[yum beer]

Yes. If the brewer from that company makes the beer at home.
I don't think they should be able to enter a bottle of Little Creatures off the bottling line into a comp. That's not what I am talking about.

But if the brewer goes home and makes a cracking American Pale Ale then I don't see why they shouldn't be able to enter.

if he goes home and creates from scratch the same as the rest of us...no problem.

Its hard to compete with a FWK brewed on top quality COMMERCIAL equipment....great for brewing and drinking at home...but stretching the definition of brewing I think.

 

[winkle]

Great to see the results come out so quickly after judging today. Thanks to all who helped out with judging / stewarding and general admin. From what I tasted over the comp, QLD is in a good position to do well in the Nats.

Congrats to all who have entered, I didn't hear of many bad beers all day and on the most part the level of entries was very high.

Totally stoked over taking out Champ beer and earning my first gold ranking. Hail the all powerful Belgian Dark Strong :icon_drunk:

Cheers,

TS

I wish that I'd had more than just a sniff+sip of that one Liam.
I'd encourage anyone who enters comps to participate in the judging/stewarding process - I know I took away some big hints on how to improve the chances of my IPAs in competitions from yesterday (ie; where I was going not to style).
Florian did extremely well for a guy who has only been brewing for a while, although I shouldn't have been surprised after swilling his dunkel last week :icon_cheers:

 

[mahonya1]

Does this mean if Ross finished in the top 3, then 4th place now gets a 3rd??

 

[winkle]

Does this mean if Ross finished in the top 3, then 4th place now gets a 3rd??

Give the lads a bit of time and all will be sorted.

 

[stillscottish]

I would say this is a very clever move by Ross. In one fell swoop he's highlighting an obvious anomaly in the rules and also garnering publicity for his range of FWK's.

 

[lock]

The Christmas Spiced beer was :icon_drool2:

Glad you liked it. It was brewed using the Dobel Dobel mash technique outlined by Randy Mosher in Radical Brewing. Each member of PUBS got a couple of bottles for Xmas. Join up and there may even be 1 or 2 left to hand out to new members :icon_cheers:

 

[bconnery]

Glad you liked it. It was brewed using the Dobel Dobel mash technique outlined by Randy Mosher in Radical Brewing. Each member of PUBS got a couple of bottles for Xmas. Join up and there may even be 1 or 2 left to hand out to new members :icon_cheers:

Sorry, but I'm no club whore like BribieG I'm a one club man (plus I live about 5 minutes drive from where Babbs meets ...)
I'll take a bottle as a post bribe for giving you such a good score though?

Seriously though, top notch beer that stood out in a whole class of good beers.

 

[VBisGod]

I would say this is a very clever move by Ross. In one fell swoop he's highlighting an obvious anomaly in the rules and also garnering publicity for his range of FWK's.

Whats the anomaly?
Ross brews beer on commercial gear. Ross gets his back up because he was out voted 8-1. Ross carpet bombs and severely damages the integrity of QABC2011. In a months time no one will give a flying f### about Ross`s so called crusade, the rules wont change and brewers will still enter competitions without worrying about what others are brewing.