Pub Gas Sydney?

[mjoelnir]

Hello, new around these parts. Been getting into the full grain brewing, and have a kegerator setup, currently using a 6KG CO2 for carbonation - but it's just not really very nice flavour-wise, so i'm wanting to try pub gas instead (cellamix 55 or similar!)

Just wondering if anyone happens to know anywhere in syd that will do smaller cylinder pub gas refills or sells smaller cylinder pub gas etc - currently the best option i've come across is renting a VT sized cylinder from BOC for about $30/mo + the cost of the contents (about $80 apparently). That monthly rental is a bit killer so I'm hoping there are better options for home brewing.

Cheers if anyone has any pointers.

 

[clickeral]

What do you mean the gas isn't good flavor wise?

 

[mjoelnir]

pure CO2 when disolved into water creates carbonic acid, and this affects flavor to some extent (and also reacts with some components of some drinks presumably)

Basically all pubs / restaurants etc that have beers etc on tap don't use pure Co2 for carbonation / pressuring their lines, they use pub gas instead, which is a mix of nitrogen + Co2 in various ratios - for things like guiness / kilkenny for example, 70 nitrogen 30 co2 is the commonly used mix. A more general purpose mix is 55 nittrogen 45 co2.

Various gas suppliers sell them, just typically not in easy-for-the-average-homebrewer to access ways.

Granted, there may be caveats around this I am unaware of (relatively new to a lot of aspects of this type of brewing) such as - they don't actually use pub gas to carbonate their brews, only pressurise the lines etc, but I am operating under the assumption I can just substitute pub gas for pure Co2 in my kegerator setup for a less co2 harsh flavour / mouth feel.

Perhaps I am wrong, in which case I would be happy to be corrected by someone who knew better!

 

[clickeral]

Yes I have heard of carbonic acid, but can't say Ive had an issue with it impacting my beer personally

What are you experiencing to think its the gas?

Have you tried your beer uncarbed or tried bottle conditioning to see if it still tastes bad?

Is it every batch of beer? is it possible you've got an infection etc?

How are you filling your kegs, possibility of O2 exposure?

Whats the taste you don't like and what styles of beer?

Also kegs of beer tend to be carbonated from the brewery (pubs etc don't carbonate they just serve it)

https://gasguyz.com.au/collections/homebrew-nitrogen-mix (refill)

https://gasguyz.com.au/collections/home-brew-nitrogen-co2-mix-cylinders-including-gas

Not sure if they service your area

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

pure CO2 when disolved into water creates carbonic acid, and this affects flavor to some extent (and also reacts with some components of some drinks presumably)

Basically all pubs / restaurants etc that have beers etc on tap don't use pure Co2 for carbonation / pressuring their lines, they use pub gas instead, which is a mix of nitrogen + Co2 in various ratios - for things like guiness / kilkenny for example, 70 nitrogen 30 co2 is the commonly used mix. A more general purpose mix is 55 nittrogen 45 co2.

Various gas suppliers sell them, just typically not in easy-for-the-average-homebrewer to access ways.

Granted, there may be caveats around this I am unaware of (relatively new to a lot of aspects of this type of brewing) such as - they don't actually use pub gas to carbonate their brews, only pressurise the lines etc, but I am operating under the assumption I can just substitute pub gas for pure Co2 in my kegerator setup for a less co2 harsh flavour / mouth feel.

Perhaps I am wrong, in which case I would be happy to be corrected by someone who knew better!

Commercial brewers carbonate their beer with pure CO2.

The reason CO2:N2 (ie. "Cellamix" etc) gas mixes are used is because you need substantially higher pressures to push beers through larger ID tubing many many metres through pubs, think about big hotels with pokies bar, sports bar, restaurant bar etc, that's a lot of line and 10 PSI is not going to cut it. So for that reason if they used 100% CO2 to dispense the kegs, they would massively over carbonate every beer. They typically run pressures of 60-70 PSI. The ratios of CO2:N2 are proportion to the desired carbonation level of those beers. Guiness is carbonated lower and benefits from the smaller head formed from the additional Nitrogen upon dispensing.

CO2 does not have a flavour. Carbonic acid can give you a sour impression, think about that "sharpness" in a Coke/Pepsi etc. That said many breweries even small micro's serve with lower pressure systems and 100% CO2 as the gas, without any flavour impacts. As above I'd be looking elsewhere first as it's likely something else causing the flavour issue.

You cannot "carbonate" a beer with Nitrogen. Hope this helps clear it up.