Protein Rest For Weyermann Bohemian Pilsener?

[Bribie G]

Winter's here and late afternoon today I'm about to attempt my holy grail of a Czech Pilsener using Wey Bohemian Pilsener Malt, Saaz Saaz Saaz and Wyeast Urquell. I've done a search on the forum and can't find anything about protein rest but quoting Palmer:

The typical Protein Rest at 120 - 130F is used to break up proteins which might otherwise cause chill haze and can improve the head retention. This rest should only be used when using moderately-modified malts, or when using fully modified malts with a large proportion (>25%) of unmalted grain, e.g. flaked barley, wheat, rye, or oatmeal. Using this rest in a mash consisting mainly of fully modified malts would break up the proteins responsible for body and head retention and result in a thin, watery beer. The standard time for a protein rest is 20 - 30 minutes.

Does anyone know whether this malt is fully modified, or would it benefit from a protein rest? I'm not in a position (BIAB) to easily do a decoction mash to model what they do in Europe but want to get as authentic as possible.

Any suggestions welcome.

 

[shandy]

Weyermann do 4 different pilsner malts and only one of them is listed as being well modified on their website which isn't this one. I think it's safe to assume that this one may be moderately modified but probably on the high side of moderate.

I've used the bohemian with a protein rest and without. In neither case did I notice a chill haze after prolonged lagering, although lagering isn't necessarily going to remove chill haze. My experience with the protein rest was that the beer was a little thinner although it's hardly scientific data given that I only did one time with each. What I vowed I would do next time with this beer was to do a much shorter protein rest, maybe only about 10 minutes or so. I think 20-30 minutes is way to long for a malt which is probably fairly well, if not almost fully modified.

 

[benno1973]

Let me qualify my reply by saying... I'm no expert. That's the disclaimer, now my thoughts...

I think modification is by degrees - German malts are reported to be less modified than other malts, and so can benefit from a protein rest to produce a fuller, maltier beer. Palmer also states:

If you use less well-modified malts, such as German Pils malt, a multi-rest mash will produce maltier tasting beers although they need a protein rest to fully realize their potential. In this case the mash schedule suggested by Fix is 50 - 60 - 70C, again with half hour rests. The rest at 50C takes the place of the liquefaction rest at 40C and provides the necessary protein rest. This schedule is well suited for producing continental lager beers.

However, having said that most of todays Pilsner malts are well modified, so it's generally considered that there's no need for a protein rest, or only a short one if you do go ahead with it. Weyermann has their average malt specs on their spec sheets, but I can't seem to find them. A good googling should turn them up. Even better if you have the lot analysis for the batch you are using.

 

[Pumpy]

BribieG I have been doing a 50C Protein rest on my pale bers

does it need it ....I feel I get better results if I do it combined with scum skimming and a 90 min boil

I dont do things generally that are unecessary .

Sometimnes you have to have a go

I love how the protein drops out on the boil first time I did it I wondered what was going on.


Pumpy

 

[Bribie G]

Thanks for the tip, I reckon I'll have a bet both ways and do the ten minute rest with a thickish mash then top up the urn to sach rest temperature with a heap of extremely hot water and the mash paddle and thermometer. As the old man used to say I'll be busier than a one armed painter with the crabs

 

[gibbocore]

i've done a 4 step decoction using whey pils, 55/64/70/75(mashout), the hot break was quite remarkable with some of the clearest wort i've ever had, the protien in the boil goes all tiny and drops like lead shot.

 

[Kleiny]

Ive had haze problems with this malt before and would suggest a protein(B glucan) rest.

I didnt do a rest when i brewed a pils with this malt the first time round and got haze so next time its going to get the rest at around 50C.

Just my 2cents

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I always use a 20min combined Protein/Betaglucan rest at 55C with my Pils malts.No Problems with thinness etc.
GB

 

[Bribie G]

Bump:

Thanks guys. what I did was a 20 min rest at 55 degrees then took it up to 66 for 90 minutes. It's well into the boil now. I can't believe this malt, the mash started off looking like milky porridge and now into the boil it's the most incredible break I have ever seen, it looks like those 'snow dome' souvenir things with the fake snowflakes . Up to now I have used UK malts and BB Australians, and this is the first time I have used a German as a base malt. It really changes your road map. It even came to the boil differently with a fierce frothing at the end and masses of foam that reared up then collapsed back into the boiling wort.. quite Wagneresque compared to the docile Aussie malts I am used to.

All part of the journey little grasshopper :icon_cheers:

 

[matti]

gee there's lager brewers popping up left, right and center... wohhooo

I v'e got sack of Bohemian Pils malt and i hope I get to use it soon.
My last beer is still in nochill cube.

Back on topic.
I always do protein rests.
Kunze and the pros suggests a brief protein rest and it look like you are reeping the results.
Midninght brewing aye aye.
Betta get back to work LOl

Matti

 

[Zwickel]

welcome brewers to the "Protein Resting Club"

I do 15 to 20 min. protein rests at 52C :beerbang:

ahem.... did my 110th Pilsener brew last Sunday (yesterday) :icon_cheers:

 

[joecast]

welcome brewers to the "Protein Resting Club"

I do 15 to 20 min. protein rests at 52C :beerbang:

ahem.... did my 110th Pilsener brew last Sunday (yesterday) :icon_cheers:

good enough for me. thanks zwickel
timely topic chappo as i also have a bag of bo pils waiting to get pilsenerised :angry:
joe

 

[j1gsaw]

good enough for me. thanks zwickel
timely topic chappo as i also have a bag of bo pils waiting to get pilsenerised :angry:
joe

Pilsenerised? Im sure i seen that on a porno once.. :lol:

 

[mje1980]

welcome brewers to the "Protein Resting Club"

I do 15 to 20 min. protein rests at 52C :beerbang:

ahem.... did my 110th Pilsener brew last Sunday (yesterday) :icon_cheers:

Would you do it for wey vienna?. And how do you guys do it in a single tun?,Mash in thick, then add more water to bring it up to sach temp?

 

[warrenlw63]

Would you do it for wey vienna?. And how do you guys do it in a single tun?,Mash in thick, then add more water to bring it up to sach temp?

mje

I protein rest all my beers at 55 degrees for 20 mins.

Simplest way is to mash in with a L/G ratio of 1.5 litres of water per kg of grain. Doughing in is a bit like mixing concrete but you can get away with it.

Then it's just a matter of boiling water infusions and stirring thoroughly to reach your sacc temp.

Warren -

 

[mje1980]

Cheers mate thanks. Its do able for sure. Does the rest at 55 count as part of the hour long mash??

 

[warrenlw63]

I don't think so. I usually keep the sacc rest to a minimum of 45 minutes.

Warren -

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

mje

I protein rest all my beers at 55 degrees for 20 mins.

Simplest way is to mash in with a L/G ratio of 1.5 litres of water per kg of grain. Doughing in is a bit like mixing concrete but you can get away with it.

Then it's just a matter of boiling water infusions and stirring thoroughly to reach your sacc temp.

Warren -

Yes I agree, the enzymes work better in a thick mash ( I use a little more than 1.5L) at this stage, it also allows you to step your mash up by hot liquor infusions/additions to achieve a good thin Sac rest which is good for attenuation..Good to see brewers now seeing the benefit of a protein rest.
GB

 

[Pumpy]

welcome brewers to the "Protein Resting Club"
I do 15 to 20 min. protein rests at 52C :beerbang:

ahem.... did my 110th Pilsener brew last Sunday (yesterday)

Yay I am in the club :blink: :unsure:


I love my Dortmunder

 

[geoffi]

I usually do a thick 50c rest for about 10 or 15 minutes. For ales I'll then go to whatever the main rest temp is, then to high 70s for a mash out. For lagers and wheat beers I then go to 60 for 30 mins, 70 for 30, then mash out.

I do all this by just adding hot water. I don't much care if the mash gets thin for the higher rest temps. I think this has a very marginal effect.

Does all this make a difference? I think it does. I'm certainly pleased with the way my beers have been turning out. One think I'm sold on is the mash out. I think it improves efficiency and makes sparging easier.