Proper Hopping When Using No-chill

[Ken Man Do]

Firstly, please don't let this thread devolve into a discussion of the pros and cons of no-chill. Please!

I'm wondering what kind of hop schedule modifications will be necessary when brewing a no-chill (NC from here on out?) beer.

Sure, bittering hops are no problem because supposedly maximum bitterness contribution is reached at around 60 minutes, so there is little bitterness change due to NC. But how do we handle flavor and aroma hops? I'm guessing the slow NC will beat them up severely, and turn them at least partially into a bittering addition.

So here's my plan to gain some knowledge on this. I'm going to brew this weekend, and throw all my hops in at flameout. The hope is that there will be a bitterness contribution due to the slow NC, but also hopefully there will remain flavoring and aroma. By the way, I use pellet hops.

So what do you think? And any more data points out there on this topic?

Ken

 

[Kai]

Well, I think it would also depend on whether your hops are being racked to the cube along with the wort, of if you leave them behind. If they do end up in the cube then I would expect the bitterness to become a little higher.

How much higher, I don't know. If I have hops in the cube then I have been treating them as an extra five minutes on the addition time, but I don't know how accurate that is. I've also found that chucking hops directly into the cube (like when you forget to add them at flameout... oops) preserves some nice flavour too.

 

[MHB]

Ken Man Do
I think you misunderstand the roll of the various hop components; taste and aroma fractions don't become alpha acid and then get isomerised.

Once you get below boiling you won't get much change in the bitterness. I.E. conversion of alpha into iso-alpha.

You should make your bitterness additions as per usual.

Remember that a lot of brews are whirlpooled for 15-30 minutes after taste and or flame out additions are made. You will be closing the container, locking in the volatile aroma fractions.

Adding hops to the cube is an interesting idea, I havent tried it or given it any thought, but would expect something like the effect you get from a hop back.

Could be great for those hugely hoped APA style beers.

MHB

 

[Ken Man Do]

Ken Man Do
I think you misunderstand the roll of the various hop components; taste and aroma fractions don't become alpha acid and then get isomerised.

Granted, they're not supposed to.

Once you get below boiling you won't get much change in the bitterness. I.E. conversion of alpha into iso-alpha.

Possibly debateable. I look forward to more input here.

You should make your bitterness additions as per usual.

Yes, but what about flavor and aroma additions? Per usual?

Remember that a lot of brews are whirlpooled for 15-30 minutes after taste and or flame out additions are made. You will be closing the container, locking in the volatile aroma fractions.

Adding hops to the cube is an interesting idea, I havent tried it or given it any thought, but would expect something like the effect you get from a hop back.

Could be great for those hugely hoped APA style beers.

MHB

 

[Stuster]

I must say I haven't noticed a huge difference to the hopping I would expect with a add-chill brew. I'd say add hops as normal and see how it comes out for you.

KoNG was one I remember talking about adding hops to the cube. He called it Late Wort Hopping (LWH) which I think is pretty catchy. There were some remarks that it worked pretty well with great aroma, but I've yet to try it myself.

 

[lou]

I just tasted my first keg where I added 1 oz of pellet hops to the cube as flamout/aroma hops.

theres a lot of hop flavour and a nice dose of hop aroma - but i used styrian goldings and the taste isn't very nice - it has a kinda plasticy/vanilla flavour

next time will go for somthing i like like tettnang

but it does work!

lou

 

[Guest Lurker]

- but i used styrian goldings and the taste isn't very nice - it has a kinda plasticy/vanilla flavour

lou

Hey Lou

Nasty isnt it? Kind of a perfumy vanilla aroma. But give it a month or so to fade into the background and it will just contribute an interesting spiciness.

 

[Bobby]

i dont rate styrian goldings too highly either. the flavour does improve with a little time but it still doesnt really sit right with me.

 

[dicko]

Hi All,
I use a hop bag (Ross's) and I add the aroma pellets at flame out, time the steeping, eg 5 to 10 minutes then lift the hop bag from the kettle and run the wort into the cube.
With some trials with time and hop amounts I achieve a desired result.
I do agree that a hop addition to the cube would be an interesting experiment. mmmm!!!!
Cheers

 

[Ken Man Do]

So you guys are thinking my idea of adding everything just before flameout might not be such a good idea?

 

[Weizguy]

I don't think that there is much effect on the bitterness in an NC beer, if you whirlpool and rack from the hops into the cube/fermentor.

I made an SFPA and the flavour was as expected, regardles of the NC method.

I'd recommend that you hop as normal. If concerned about the bitterness, just ensure that no hops get into the cube (well maybe a few flowers/sepals only).
Othersies, you might get a sweet beer, and that's just not right.

Seth NC'er

 

[dicko]

So you guys are thinking my idea of adding everything just before flameout might not be such a good idea?

No mate,
Go for it if the result is what you want to achieve.
One of the skills in brewing is to be able to reproduce the same beer again if you want to, and to do that you will obviously need to perform all tasks in exactly the same manner.
My personal opinion is that when I have added pellets at flame out and then whirlpool (15 to 20 mins) then decant from the kettle I tend to get more of a flavour addition than an aroma addition.
But remember - I said it was only MY opinion
I believe one of the most difficult tasks in brewing (at home) is to produce the same beer the second time (if you want to).
Cheers

 

[Aussie Claret]

Once you get below boiling you won't get much change in the bitterness. I.E. conversion of alpha into iso-alpha.

MHB

Might I ask a question, how would one explain mash hopping then? As I understand mash hopping can contribute bitterness below 70c, or am I wrong?

I have added hops to the cube and racked the boiling or near boiling wort on to the hops, to be perfectly honest the flavour and aroma were much more subtle than I was expecting and I believe that these additions added quite a bit more bitterness.

Cheers
AC

 

[user 384]

Once you get below boiling you won't get much change in the bitterness. I.E. conversion of alpha into iso-alpha.

MHB

Might I ask a question, how would one explain mash hopping then? As I understand mash hopping can contribute bitterness below 70c, or am I wrong?

Actually mash hopping doesn't contribute to bitterness below 70c. At mashing temps the alpha acids are dissolved into the wort but it's not untill you reach the boiling stage, that they're isomerised which gives the bitterness.

In the case of NCing, once you have turned the flame off, and let it sit for a while, the temp has probably dropped below the point where it isomersises the alpha acids, so adding extra hops to the cube is unlikely to have much of an impact on bittering. However if you run it off at virtually 100C there would still be enough heat for some isomerisation, hence the slight increase in bitterness, until the wort temp drops too low.

Cheers
MAH