Promash Hop Aa Adjustment: Do You Trust It?

[Synthetase]

G'day fellow brewers, I have a question for you.

I'm brewing a Helles tomorrow and I've just been going through everything to make sure I'm okay for brew day and I noticed something interesting. It turns out the Spalt I was going to bitter with is from a 2007 harvest. I bought it from G+G a month or so back and obviously didn't notice this at the time.

Promash tells me that given the storage conditions, it should have dropped from its original AA value of 4.9% to ~1.64. This means adding almost 60 grams to my recipe to achieve my 17 IBU target. I've been through a few other calculators and they've all spat out values ranging from 1.64 to 2.3. Do you believe them?

I am attempting to brew to style with this one and I'd like to hit the IBUs on the head and not end up with either very bitter/very sweet beer. My other concern is that if the value is correct, would adding that much hops (even though they are so old) push the hop flavour way out of the style guidelines? Would I end up with a properly bittered, but completely unbalanced beer?

Obviously I've never brewed with such old hops before, should I just suck it up and use the 2007 Spalt in a lambic and go buy some fresh hops for the Helles?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

 

[warra48]

It all depends on how they have been stored.
Promash may be right, but also may not.

For example, as I type, I'm drinking an ESB I brewed recently with 50 gr Challenger (7.9%) 2006 hops 60 min to 40 IBU, and 40 gr First Gold (7.9%) 2006 hops 15 min to 16 IBU, with fresh Fuggles pellets at flame out. The hops taste is still there, and certainly not stale, although the bitterness is probably more like 40 to 45 IBU, rather than 56 IBU BeerSmith gives me for non aged hops. It drinks like a lovely balanced ale. However, my hops have been stored airtight in the freezer.

It seems to me the brewing software assume the hops are stored at ambient temperature. If that is the case, I can certainly understand the programmed degradation. I personally don't accept that to be the case for sealed hops stored in the freezer.

I'd be interested to learn of others' experiences with this issue.

 

[razz]

If I was you, I would put off making the brew and return the hops to G&G. John and Chris are very obliging people and I'm surprised that they would keep such old stock.

 

[Synthetase]

It all depends on how they have been stored.

It seems to me the brewing software assume the hops are stored at ambient temperature. If that is the case, I can certainly understand the programmed degradation. I personally don't accept that to be the case for sealed hops stored in the freezer.

Promash asks for the storage conditions and temperature. It gives you the options of: No seal; airtight (but with air inside); and vacuum seal/modified atmosphere packaging. G+G hops are kept vacuum sealed in a fridge and I've kept them in the fridge unopened since I bought them.

 

[goomboogo]

No science to support this, just personal observation. With the AA degradation in Beersmith (I assume it's similar to Promash) I halve the age of the hops. If the hops were 36 months old I would list them as 18 months. This seems to get a bittering level that seems about right for the beer when comparing to the relevant bittering level when using fresher hops. As I say, this has not been measured in any way other taste. I started to change the setting as when initially following the program's age adjustment the bittering seemed to be above what was expected.

 

[SmuggledBudgie]

In beer smith, I was only getting 13 IBUs when the target was 18 IBUs. I increased from 28 to 40g of hops to reach target. When I bought the hops (Liberty) I noticed its dated from 2013 season. BeerSmith has a tool to adjust for age, and it now reckons I should use 72g to reach 18IBUs. I did some research, most people are saying add about 15% more for old hops...I've decided to go mid of the road at 56g. Will see what happens.

Have you adjusted for hop age before?