Problems with yeast rinse

[hobospy]

Hi,

I posted this issue in the Yeast Rinsing Experiment - Yeast Vs Trub/break thread but haven't managed to get any responses and thought it might be due to the old thread or maybe I didn't give enough information.

Anyway, basic issue is that I am trying to rinse my yeast for the first time (WLP029 Kolsch) and am facing am issue where I think the trub is forming a middle layer. Not sure if I am doing something wrong or maybe everything below the dark grey layer is trub but would really appreciate any pointers with this. Was hoping to harvest off enough yeast to for another couple of batches.

Process:

1. Cold crash beer in fermenter for a few days at 2C
2. Drain off beer into keg
3. Add 2 litres of chilled (4C) distilled water to the yeast cake and roll around until yeast cake is picked up
4. Separate out into three separate 1 litre jars
5. Put back into fridge at 4C until layers separate out

What I thought was going to happen:

• At this point the trub would settle to the bottom
• Take the liquid and the top layer(s) off the trub into new jars
• Top up with distilled water and shake again
• Let settle for 20 - 30 minutes
• Draw off the milky liquid into new jars
• Chill - yeast will settle to the bottom in a thin layer now covered with distilled water

What actually happened was:

[EDIT: I can't upload a file from my work PC and my phone isn't showing me the advanced editing options, picture of current state of yeast is on the linked thread at the top of this post, I will update with actual picture when I get home.]

 

[eldertaco]

I'm willing to bet you're not using enough water. What you described always happens to me when I don't use enough water.

My recommendation would be use 2L in the fermenter like you've been doing, just to help loosen it all up and get it all flowing nicely. Then fill a jar halfway with water and top up with your slurry from fermenter.

Other than that your technique sounds spot on.

 

[hobospy]

I split one of the jars out into half and filled with more distilled water on Sunday night, see the picture below, still not sure I can see the split of where the yeast is though.

I can see a darker layer on top but is this the yeast?

 

[eldertaco]

Nah you've killed it. That is close to best case scenario in my opinion. Probably didn't need quite as much extra water as I said, but what you've got there is about as best as I'd be looking for anyway.

Ultimately a job well done.

Edit: Nah I think the goods is the nice coloured creamy looking stuff at the bottom of your jar. You're good to go.

 

[hobospy]

Ahhhhh cool, SWMBO will be pleased to get it out of our fridge and into the garage again, I'll transfer them into my smaller jars and store in prep for my next brew, might try using it on a pilsner.

 

[eldertaco]

Maybe even look at splitting it into some vials with glycerine and freeze it?

You can sell the idea to SWMBO on the idea of buying yeast less often.... Hahahahaha.

 

[hobospy]

Hahahaha, that's what I was thinking [emoji23] Thought I would try just storing it like this to begin with and once I know the process sorted move on to glycerin and freezing. With this one I'm going to create a starter and check that it smells ok before using it in a beer, any other checks I should do?

 

[HaveFun]

you have to use distilled water ?

 

[hobospy]

Don't think so, think you can use water that you have boiled for at least 15 minutes and cooled. I just chose to use distilled water for convenience.

 

[Nizmoose]

Just overstep your starters and take and store 200B cells pre-pitch

 

[hobospy]

That definitely sounds like a better approach, I'm still a bit worried with the rinsing and don't really want to waste a batch of beer on experimenting. Might look to do that with the next packet

 

[Rocker1986]

Just overstep your starters and take and store 200B cells pre-pitch

That's what I do, not quite 200B cells but it's certainly a lot less faffing around than rinsing from the fermenter. Have kept a few strains going 10+ generations no trouble.

 

[Nizmoose]

That definitely sounds like a better approach, I'm still a bit worried with the rinsing and don't really want to waste a batch of beer on experimenting. Might look to do that with the next packet

It's good from a sanitation point of view but you're also culturing:
- less stressed yeast
- clean yeast
- younger yeast
- more active yeast

You're allowing for less dramatic genetic drift as well as less cell damage and better cell health, some people think hops are beneficial but I think the general consensus is that hop free wort breeds better yeast for repitching. It's also a lot less work which is definitely half the battle.

I get my starter going and calculate my expected final cell count, then I determine how much volume will be my 100B cells (I do 100B as I do 10L batches at home) so lets say 300ml of a 1L starter, after the starter has fully fermented I stop the stir plate and pour 300ml into a sanitised preserving jar, ensuring the starter is well mixed and homogeneous, then I crash both of them overnight and before pitching the next day I'll decant the beer off of the actual pitching yeast and pitch just the slurry and I leave the jar yeast under beer in the fridge until I make up another starter with it.

 

[hobospy]

It's good from a sanitation point of view but you're also culturing:
- less stressed yeast
- clean yeast
- younger yeast
- more active yeast

You're allowing for less dramatic genetic drift as well as less cell damage and better cell health, some people think hops are beneficial but I think the general consensus is that hop free wort breeds better yeast for repitching. It's also a lot less work which is definitely half the battle.

I get my starter going and calculate my expected final cell count, then I determine how much volume will be my 100B cells (I do 100B as I do 10L batches at home) so lets say 300ml of a 1L starter, after the starter has fully fermented I stop the stir plate and pour 300ml into a sanitised preserving jar, ensuring the starter is well mixed and homogeneous, then I crash both of them overnight and before pitching the next day I'll decant the beer off of the actual pitching yeast and pitch just the slurry and I leave the jar yeast under beer in the fridge until I make up another starter with it.

Thanks for that, good explanation of a reasonably easy way to split my yeast, definitely planning to do this with my next starter.

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah that's pretty much how I do it too. I turn the stir plate off after a day and let it sit another two days before re stirring to harvest. It doesn't need to be on the whole time.

The only other difference is that I always harvest the same volume (800mL), so my harvested cell count varies a bit, but generally between 130 and 150 billion. I usually have to make it about a litre bigger than needed rather than 800mL. I can give you the way I work it out if you like when I'm on computer.

Sent from my Agora 4G+ using Aussie Home Brewer mobile app

 

[Andy_27]

My method is the same but I find this calculator really handy.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php#

You can put in an overbuild amount and it works out your steps based on your flask size.