Possible leaking regulator

[timmi9191]

Anyone have experience with system leaks?

The gas system has been working superbly for 2 odd years now, which I guess is the reason why something had to go wrong.

I have eliminated kegs, lines, fittings and manifold has the source of the leak by submerging, which leaves the regulator.

When i pressurize the system and then turn off the gas at the bottle, the keg pressure gauge remains constant but the bottle pressure gauge drops to zero in about 20 seconds.

Any suggestions for locating and rectifying the leak?

cheers

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Bottle pressure gauge leaking means the leak is likely downstream of the regulator on the low pressure side, because essentially that high pressure gas in the regulator passes through the reg to maintain the set pressure on lower pressure side where the leak is. Bit counterintuitive.

Just submerge the bottle and reg in a bath, should find it quick smart if it's dropping in. 20,ins it's a decent leak. If it's a KK reg check the stem from the bottle into the reg I had one leak there as it's quite thin and under a lot of stress each time you move the bottle or remove the regulator and put it on a new bottle. Remember to dry out your reg as they mostly have vent ports so the body will fill with water. A heat gun will help evaporate the water off, or just leave in the sun for a day. Hope that helps!

 

[timmi9191]

Isnt submerging the reg a big no no??

thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[droid]

if you have a small spray bottle you can put some detergent mixed with water and spray it over suspect areas. bubbles should form where there is a leak, if you're hard up for a bottle and detergent then a bit of gooz ; aka saliva works in desperate situations....apparently...gas tape on all threads is best practice imho

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Why is submerging a reg a no no? I've done it before and found a pesky tiny leak out the steam as mentioned.

Gas tape is OK, but you can't beat Loctite thread sealant. Most good brand regulators will have been assembled with Loctite on all threaded fittings requiring a gas seal.

 

[timmi9191]

Why is submerging a reg a no no? I've done it before and found a pesky tiny leak out the steam as mentioned.

Gas tape is OK, but you can't beat Loctite thread sealant. Most good brand regulators will have been assembled with Loctite on all threaded fittings requiring a gas seal.

no actual reason, just thought it was or maybe was told it was.

would certainly be an easy way to see where the leak is. Guess im about to find out whether its ok or not...

 

[droid]

Why is submerging a reg a no no? I've done it before and found a pesky tiny leak out the steam as mentioned.
Gas tape is OK, but you can't beat Loctite thread sealant. Most good brand regulators will have been assembled with Loctite on all threaded fittings requiring a gas

loctite thread seal ,, roger roger

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Just make sure you dry it out properly after and there will be no problems.

 

[glenwal]

What is the scale on the high pressure side of the reg? With the bottle turned off, wouldn't it equalise is self pretty quickly and both sides would be at the same low (keg) pressure? Which (based on the scale on my reg) would look like 0 on the high pressure gauge.

Are you sure it's actually leaking (eg is the bottle emptying quicker than expected) or are you just assuming it is because of the gauge?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

What is the scale on the high pressure side of the reg? With the bottle turned off, wouldn't it equalise is self pretty quickly and both sides would be at the same low (keg) pressure? Which (based on the scale on my reg) would look like 0 on the high pressure gauge.

Are you sure it's actually leaking (eg is the bottle emptying quicker than expected) or are you just assuming it is because of the gauge?

Sorry to be blunt, but you're incorrect.

If there was no leak at all, the regulator would sit essentially at the same levels providing there was not too big an ambient temperature change (as the temperature will change the density and therefore the pressure), but that is besides the point here.

The regulator will only flow in one direction with our setups, the spring on the diaphragm lets gas pass to the low pressure side only if the low pressure side drops below the set pressure of the spring. So if there is a leak on the low pressure side the pressure drops and the high pressure supplies some gas to raise it back to the pressure setting of the regulator. This causes the high pressure to drop because the cylinder cannot maintain this constant high pressure since you closed the valve.

You may also have a leak on the high pressure side of the regulator causing the high pressure to drop, but this is unlikely because high pressure side leaks are very noticeable due to the force behind the leak.

Hope that makes sense, if not here is regulators 101 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_regulator

 

[glenwal]

Sorry to be blunt, but you're incorrect.

If there was no leak at all, the regulator would sit essentially at the same levels providing there was not too big an ambient temperature change[/url]

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but if the beer in the keg wasn't 100% carbed to the level that corresponds to the reg setting, wouldn't the beer absorb more co2, dropping the pressure on the keg side, which would then be raised by moving gas from the high pressure side of the reg, and since the bottle is off, would drop the pressure on the high pressure side of the reg fairly rapidly?

But like I said, happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Thats correct, although it wouldnt happen over 20minutes. It's also not what you referred to in your original post. Nor is it in context to the OPs issue. Hes trying to find a leak so wouldnt have the disconnects hooked up to any kegs when turning the bottle off (timmi, you're leaving kegs disconnected for this check yes?).

 

[timmi9191]

Thats correct, although it wouldnt happen over 20minutes. It's also not what you referred to in your original post. Nor is it in context to the OPs issue. Hes trying to find a leak so wouldnt have the disconnects hooked up to any kegs when turning the bottle off (timmi, you're leaving kegs disconnected for this check yes?).

Yes, closed off at the manifold

 

[pcmfisher]

Why is submerging a reg a no no? I've done it before and found a pesky tiny leak out the steam as mentioned.
Gas tape is OK, but you can't beat Loctite thread sealant. Most good brand regulators will have been assembled with Loctite on all threaded fittings requiring a gas

loctite thread seal ,, roger roger

Don't put sealer or tape on the thread on the bottle that the regulator screws onto though.

Maybe a stupid question but it has been known to happen, but you haven't just changed the bottle and dropped the nylon washer out of the regulator when screwing it on? They leak real bad then.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Youd hear a bottle high pressure side leak though. Another important one is to ensurr when you turn the bottle on to open the valve fully, not half cocked because the steam nut on the handle can leak if its not fully open!

 

[glenwal]

OK, if the kegs are shut off, then my only other thought is how long are you leaving the gas turned on for before turning it off? I know with my reg, the low pressure side jumps to just below the set pressure fairly quickly, and then creeps up the rest of the way slowly.

If your shutting it off before it's come completely up to pressure, then gas will still be flowing slowly from the high pressure side to the low side, which will drop the pressure on the high side.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

We're still only talking a small volume and the high pressure gas will make up for this without dropping all the way to 0. OP has stated the gauge drops to 0 in 20 seconds, pretty definitive that there is a leak.

 

[Grott]

Does the reg. have a pressure release valve? My KK reg. leaked there when I first got it. Soapy water as suggested will find the leak/s.
Cheers