Plumbing Schematic - Thoughts?

[cat007]

I've mocked up a plumbing schematic for my new brew rig but I would really appreciate peoples thoughts on how I could improve it or make it simpler etc etc.

Take a looksie:

I will be using an Opentroller DX1 to control the valves and pumps.

 

[MHB]

I think you dont know how hard this is going to be, I cant see what you are using for sensors but it really is a lot more complex than you think.
First set up the system and run in manually record every action and write a log
At a minimum you will need some form of flow control on the outlet of both pumps.
I would be inclined to use as few 3 way valves as possible, better to have none, just branch off from a common supply and use one valve through the system, make sure they are full bore and not prone to blocking with bits of malt and make sure you have a couple of spare valves, they only fail at the worst possible moment!
Lots of luck got a hunch you are going to need it
Mark

 

[QldKev]

Looks like it will be a lot cheaper to buy commercial beer

 

[Paul H]

BIAB..

 

[cat007]

I think you dont know how hard this is going to be, I cant see what you are using for sensors but it really is a lot more complex than you think.
First set up the system and run in manually record every action and write a log
At a minimum you will need some form of flow control on the outlet of both pumps.
I would be inclined to use as few 3 way valves as possible, better to have none, just branch off from a common supply and use one valve through the system, make sure they are full bore and not prone to blocking with bits of malt and make sure you have a couple of spare valves, they only fail at the worst possible moment!
Lots of luck got a hunch you are going to need it
Mark

Temp sensors I'm using the DS18B20's and then using a bubbler for the volume control of the HLT.

Yeah I don't really like the idea of the 3 way valves. I'll have another go at redesigning it tonight to eliminate them and try sticking to the 2 way ones.

I do understand that this is going to be by no means an easy task and I will have my work cut out for me in the months ahead. But I love a challenge and I'm pretty good with anything practical.

Oh and QldKev - where's the fun in buying a beer that someone else made? I much prefer my own recipes

 

[jlm]

As Mark suggested I'd look at setting everything up manually first. I'm in the process of doing the same thing, but for what I imagine to be quite some time the brewtroller will be a glorified herms controller, no valves (apart from vessel outlets and pump) just good 'ol fashioned swapping hoses around. Getting a handle on a new system (50L HERMS instead of 20L non HERMS) will be trying enough, when I'm happy with where I'm at with it, I'll be introducing automated steps one at a time.

 

[QldKev]

Temp sensors I'm using the DS18B20's and then using a bubbler for the volume control of the HLT.

Yeah I don't really like the idea of the 3 way valves. I'll have another go at redesigning it tonight to eliminate them and try sticking to the 2 way ones.

I do understand that this is going to be by no means an easy task and I will have my work cut out for me in the months ahead. But I love a challenge and I'm pretty good with anything practical.

Oh and QldKev - where's the fun in buying a beer that someone else made? I much prefer my own recipes

That's why were here


I think the safest way forward would be build a system using manual valves / levels controls and get it working 100%. Then start automating it one step at a time. Every brew review something or add in one more step, would keep you playing and enjoying the build for a while.

Just an idea

QldKev

 

[black_labb]

As mentioned it looks way over complicated. Not only does that mean extra cost but extra cleaning, extra footprint etc. Are you using all the valves with the intention of completely automating the system? The way you have it you will spend the time you save automating cleaning.

If you don't plan on totally automating then consider replacing a lot of parts with cam locks to swap connect ions over manually. Otherwise consider t connectors out of vessels with valves on either end which can replace a 3 way and more in some spots.

I think you will much prefer a condensed system for a lot of reasons. Spend some time looking over the system and posting some revisions for some people to look over.

 

[Cocko]

If money is not limited then take this as a lead:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=16391

It seems it is not.

Cheers!

 

[Rowy]

It's diagramatically sound if not lacking somewhat in colour and a more vibrant background would enhance the overall feel of the picture. That said I still feel the power and longing emanating from the buried man within. I'd suggest some quotes, prefferably in latin, and a link to a porn site. Those couple of small but important touches will allow this diagram to make better beer.........................Should you not feel able to make the suggested changes then you could always just................................BIAB.

 

[Wimmig]

I have reworked this design for you, made it cleaner and made some slight adjusments. Though the final result after hitting "ON" should output one of 2 outcomes being BIAB or if you get a little naughty, BM. It'll then turn OFF and reset.

 

[booargy]

I have reworked this design for you, made it cleaner and made some slight adjusments. Though the final result after hitting "ON" should output one of 2 outcomes being BIAB or if you get a little naughty, BM. It'll then turn OFF and reset.

the green wire is wrong that won't work.

 

[black_labb]

I've had another look.

You can take the 3 way out where the kettle and mlt meet and use a t piece instead. the 2 way valves on the vessels can control the flow. You could also locate a 3way on the mlt instead of the valve and route the kettle hose to that.

Is there a reason that the wort return is a separate input to the mlt to the fly sparge? You can replaced e a 3way with a 2way there.

Rethink whether you need a valve controlling the input to the mlt at all. You have flow rates controlled by the pumps and other valves, why the need for more.

You could send the strike water through the hex into the mash tun and use pump 1 to recirculate through the hex. This would save a lot messaround pump2 and not add too much around pump 1.

See where that gets you.

 

[scooter_59]

You could always simplify it by checking out alenuts scroll down until you see brutus 2.0 now that is a great system . A brewer I know built this system with a herms and PID controller and it also has great efficiency .


Cheers
leachim

 

[cat007]

If money is not limited then take this as a lead:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=16391

It seems it is not.

Cheers!

Having a read through that thread now. What an amazing build. I would like to have something similar, but just smaller - only looking at 50L (full sanke keg) batches.

I'm going through the plumbing setup now. I've gotten rid of all the 3 way valves. Have a fair few 2 ways and manual ball valves (for flow adjustment).

Will post update pic shortly for your advice/criticism

 

[cat007]

WOW this setup and page is awesome:

http://www.digitalebrewery.com/HMI.html

I guess I could base my schematic on his one as he's pretty much got the setup I plan on having - albeit a larger, nicer scale haha

 

[cat007]

Ok so how about this

Yes I know I used paint lol

Brown circles are automatic valves controller by Brewtroller - they also have a manual override.
Brown squares are manual valves for controlling flow rate and/or shutting flow off altogether.
Blue lines are soft hoses that can go from pump 1 to HLT for recirculation, or to MLT for filling or to sparge arm in MLT
The second blue hose is the same deal but for MLT recirculation or to fill the BK

I don't have any sort of valve on the blue hoses as I figure they'll always be connected and/or higher than the water level. Perhaps this is a bad idea and I should have some sort of valve at bottom end of the hoses?

 

[mxd]

For me to help overcome priming issues, I find filling my HLT (and MLT as I heat mash water in MLT then mash in) through the pump (reverse flow as pump is not on) gets rid of the air bubbles.

I batch sparge.

I find filling (whilst batch sparging and post mash in) the MLT from the bottom helps eliminate stuck sparges and makes mixing easier


I fill and drain my MLT and BK from the bottom

 

[cat007]

For me to help overcome priming issues, I find filling my HLT (and MLT as I heat mash water in MLT then mash in) through the pump (reverse flow as pump is not on) gets rid of the air bubbles.

I batch sparge.

I find filling (whilst batch sparging and post mash in) the MLT from the bottom helps eliminate stuck sparges and makes mixing easier


I fill and drain my MLT and BK from the bottom

Thanks for the tips. I've not had an issue with priming my HLT pump - which is currently set up in a similar way to what my new rig will be.

I might put a small bleeder on the line to help with priming issues. Would I put it on the in or the out side of the pump though?

 

[mxd]

Thanks for the tips. I've not had an issue with priming my HLT pump - which is currently set up in a similar way to what my new rig will be.

I might put a small bleeder on the line to help with priming issues. Would I put it on the in or the out side of the pump though?

out I think.