Pe Water Pipe Problems

[geoffd]

Does anyone have any experience in using the black PE pipe & fittings that Bunnings sell.

I was dumb enough to assume it could handle hot water, & it cant, but even the joins on the cold water (with the clamps on) are pissing like an Aussie at Octoberfest.

I is very frustrated indeed, especially considering I just spent the last few days making pipe insulation from expansion joint foam & foil tape (because Bunnings have been out of stock of 9x13mm kflex for a month), it would seem now to have been all in vain.
+- 30 meters of this **** is pretty tedious to make

 

[jyo]

It looks like standard 19 mm Poly retic pipe, yeah? I used to do retic for a living and the fittings should hold under mains pressure no problems when cold. I wouldn't be sure about the heat but whilst cold they can hold some decent pressure.
If you over tighten the clamps with a pair of pliers or the like they can leak. Just with your beerfingers is ample.
Cheers.

 

[geoffd]

It looks like standard 19 mm Poly retic pipe, yeah? I used to do retic for a living and the fittings should hold under mains pressure no problems when cold. I wouldn't be sure about the heat but whilst cold they can hold some decent pressure.
If you over tighten the clamps with a pair of pliers or the like they can leak. Just with your beerfingers is ample.
Cheers.

thanks Jyo, it's actually 13mm & yes I did use pliers to get maximum closure on the clamps, I was actually thinking of replacing them with standard metal hose clips, that maybe just give the overtight problem again though.

One of the joiners on the hot line completely popped apart so not sure if reverting to hand squeeze on clamp will help, might have to melt the bastard, hmm... plastic welding

 

[jyo]

thanks Jyo, it's actually 13mm & yes I did use pliers to get maximum closure on the clamps, I was actually thinking of replacing them with standard metal hose clips, that maybe just give the overtight problem again though.

One of the joiners on the hot line completely popped apart so not sure if reverting to hand squeeze on clamp will help, might have to melt the bastard, hmm... plastic welding

On a commercial scale (plus 90mm from memory) poly pipe is heat welded together...not sure how you'd go with 13 mm and a lighter though
You didn't use lube on the fittings by any chance? They will come off for sure if so.
I think the heat may cause you some problems with the fittings, but they should hold no worries when cold, mate.
Hope you get it sorted. Cheers.

 

[krusty_oz]

Are you getting the poly pipe from the garden irrigation section or the blue line type from the plumbing section?

 

[geoffd]

Are you getting the poly pipe from the garden irrigation section or the blue line type from the plumbing section?

Yes Krusty, not knowing what water pipe was food grade when I started, I asked in the store what to use & was pointed to this, (no blue line), even aside from it's purpose, it still shouldnt leak....an irrigation system alright, no sprinklers required.
I wonder would a bit of insulation tape under the clips help spread the load of the clip for a better seal. I'm thinking the hot water line will have to be completely replaced....aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhh......feckin feckity feck.

 

[Nibbo]

Theres a low pressure poly pipe and fittings and a high pressure poly pipe and fittings...obviosly the high is for mains and high pressure pumps...blue line on pipe means the high pressure variety. You might need to go see a hose/pump specialist to find some hose that will be suited to hot water. H.I.S Hose/Total Hose or maybe even Clark Rubber may have something.

 

[Crusty]

FJ,
The hose you have, wether using hot or cold water is defiantly not rated for mains pressure & will sooner or later burst. The mains pressure line does have the blue stripe on it & is very rigid compared to the low density PE. I use a bit of Low density for my irrigation system in my vege garden & coming from the tap to the controller is high pressure & low density after the controller for the sprinklers & drip irrigation system.

 

[the_new_darren]

Just curious what this has to do with brewing? http://tiny.cc/9rpkg

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[bradsbrew]

Just curious what this has to do with brewing? http://tiny.cc/9rpkg

cheers

the_new_darren

FFS and you were doing so well too Darren. I feel your pain man, the worst thing in the world would not being able to be with my kids but FFS its a brewing forum not a family court man.

 

[geoffd]

Just curious what this has to do with brewing? http://tiny.cc/9rpkg

cheers

the_new_darren

it is the water supply to my brewshed, as far as I know, water is the main ingredient of beer. The thread title should be indicative enough for you to make your decision to read it or not.

Back to the topic
thanks for the advice on the PE, now that I know it's only low pressure, I'll have to go back & replace it all, very much a PITA,

I have already bought the replacement line for the hot water line, I w3as hoping to avoid the cold water changeover by simply turning the tap on very low to feed into the system. My initial thought was this would only act as a flow restrictor & that the pressure would build, but the guy in the plumbing area in bunnings assured me it will also act as a pressure reduction. Hah, should I get stung twice by taking advice from bunnings, in fairness this guy couldnt believe that someone in the store recommended the 13mm PE low pressure to me for mains use. Not having any plumbing background this was not within my realm of common knowledge & there was no warning on any of the pipe or fittings that it was for low pressure only. My excuse for stupidity anyway

I also wondered if a pressure reducer of some sort would be useful or if this would just annoy the crap out of me waiting for a sink or my HLT to fill up.

 

[the_new_darren]

Ah OK,

Not sure if this is useful but I did something similar to water my garden and it too leaked. Just wondering if you have joined the piping to copper from the house? I had to "salvage" an "old" watering system by joining polypipe to copper and that was where my main leak came from. I fixed it by pushing the polypipe as far onto the copper as i could then used two finger-tight screw clamps.

cheers

the_new_darren

 

[geoffd]

Ah OK,

Not sure if this is useful but I did something similar to water my garden and it too leaked. Just wondering if you have joined the piping to copper from the house? I had to "salvage" an "old" watering system by joining polypipe to copper and that was where my main leak came from. I fixed it by pushing the polypipe as far onto the copper as i could then used two finger-tight screw clamps.

cheers

the_new_darren

Thank you Darren, no the pushfit from copper to PE seem to have held, cold water leaked at a join between PE pipe to PE inline tap.

Hot water a few places but main one was a PE pipe straight joiner with clamps, completely burst apart. I can appreciate the hot water softened the PE for this to occur, also occured on a PE to PE pushfit, possibly pipe wasnt pushed oin far enough before screwing the end fitting shut.

Im not so much pissed that I bought the wrong PE, it was pretty cheap, the insulation materials were about $75 & took two evenings to apply, whats worse is when I cut off all my good handywork it will be fecked. I would rate my chances of reusing it at about 10%

 

[Nibbo]

Turning the tap to restrict the flow will do just that when it bursts again...pressure will not be lowered thus your problem will still happen...dont be trusting the bunnings advice.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

FFS .... the clamp/ratchet cheap clamps are only used for low presure drip irrigation

You cant use cheap bunnings fittings for hot water

Poly pipe can withstand hot water, but you must remember that hot water makes poly pipe soft

Regardless of the size, poly pipe will become soft with heat

There are proper hot/boilong water fittings for use with specifice poly pipes

 

[seemax]

The LDPE (aka poly pipe) is designed for around 300kpA.

Melbourne mains pressure can be quite high depending on location (i've heard of 1000kPa).

You want the pressure rate pipe with the blue stripe.... lot more expensive though.

Personally I'd just use a food grade water hose, around $2/m and UV resistant - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WATER-HOSE-20-M...=item5ae2955305

 

[geoffd]

The LDPE (aka poly pipe) is designed for around 300kpA.

Melbourne mains pressure can be quite high depending on location (i've heard of 1000kPa).

You want the pressure rate pipe with the blue stripe.... lot more expensive though.

Personally I'd just use a food grade water hose, around $2/m and UV resistant - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/WATER-HOSE-20-M...=item5ae2955305

looks quite similar to the stuff I bought today (different diamenter) Hep2O 18mm x 25m $70 suits hot & cold, bloody expensive for the fittings, $5.30 for every elbow & they only sell individually, 7.70 PE to brass & 16.80 for a pipe cutter, all up $140 just for the hot water...uninsulated, double that for the cold & add insulation & it will be $350, the pipe itself is accetable in price its the small stuff as always is an absolute rip off.
going all copper would easily blow $500 & probably hit 600 too.


Anyway thanks for all the contributions, been most helpful indeed

cheers & goodnight

 

[geoffd]

To finish this thread off, I must give credit where credit is due, I e-mailed Bunnings on the issue of incorrect advice, they kindly agreed to refund the cost of the materials & fortunately I still had the receipts for about 3/4 of the stuff.

The store manager used a very eloquent phrase to sum up the error, a "knowledge gap", thought it was a much gentler way off saying the store assistant & I were stupid

Cheers for all you help folks, I've most of the materials got, just waiting for a break in the weather.

 

[Wolfman]

Interest here for sure B)

To finish this thread off, I must give credit where credit is due, I e-mailed Bunnings on the issue of incorrect advice, they kindly agreed to refund the cost of the materials & fortunately I still had the receipts for about 3/4 of the stuff.

The store manager used a very eloquent phrase to sum up the error, a "knowledge gap", thought it was a much gentler way off saying the store assistant & I were stupid

Cheers for all you help folks, I've most of the materials got, just waiting for a break in the weather.

You will never have to replace this system though. Worth it's weight in gold! I have renovated two houses using this system, would have cost tripple to use a plumber and copper pipe/joins!

It's UV resistant, you just need to paint it.



Cheers