Off Tastes: Dishwashing Liquid

[maltedhopalong]

Washing-up liquid has a heap of aromatics and bittering stuff added to it, to make it smell nice and to stop kids drinking too much of it - so I agree with everyone who says it should be avoided like the plague around your brewing gear. It also has pretty potent head-destroying properties.

Dishwasher powder, as far as I know, is basically sodium percarbonate (ie napisan) anyway - if so, it does have some sanitising properties, but is best used as a cleaner and then followed with a dedicated sanitiser.

The OP's problem sounds to me more like extract tang, or possibly some citrusy hop oils from the kit?
Not sure what your issue is Boilerboy, how do the cubes smell when they are empty?

One thing I've noticed, is that the 'unscented' homebrand nappy treament from one store smells (and looks) identical to the 'lemon' nappy treatment from another store - so I don't really place much stock in their labelling to be honest, there's a good chance it's all the same stuff anyway, just with different labels to give the illusion of choice. If you think it could be fragrance from the napisan then maybe try something else for a while.

Alternatively, I've heard autolysis described as 'soapy' - is there any chance one of your brews spent too long in a cube and developed some funky flavours?

Nah, straight from fermenter to bottles. It's not "soapy" it's "detergent"-y. U know like morning fresh?

So are you guys saying that I could get away with cleaning my fermenter thus? Bottle, rinse out with water, scrub with a soft cleaning cloth, then rinse again, fill with napisan/homebrand bleach and then rinse and sanitise???

That sounds heaps easier than the extraordinarily long process I normally use. Washing it out, soaking it hot water, washing again (all with detergent) rinsing to the point of ridiculousness, then santising...

 

[Stuster]

My process is fairly easy. Rinse out to get most of the debris out. Soak overnight with napisan in hot water (no need to scrub). Rinse well a few times. Iodophor - no rinse.

 

[BoilerBoy]

One thing I've noticed, is that the 'unscented' homebrand nappy treament from one store smells (and looks) identical to the 'lemon' nappy treatment from another store - so I don't really place much stock in their labelling to be honest, there's a good chance it's all the same stuff anyway, just with different labels to give the illusion of choice. If you think it could be fragrance from the napisan then maybe try something else for a while.

Alternatively, I've heard autolysis described as 'soapy' - is there any chance one of your brews spent too long in a cube and developed some funky flavours?

I dont think its autolysis, I CC ales for around 2 weeks in the fridge the smoked porter wouldn't all fit into the cube so I put the remaining into a smaller plastic container which after the same period was fine.

Its something the cubes are imparting to the beer.

I checked the container of homebrand nappy wash to see if they had changed anything, but its still the same, though I dont know if there is any guarantee on there quality control?

The smell of the cubes when cleaned rinsed and dried is hard to say because I never had reason th note ot in the past and when your suspicious of something you tend to see it in, or in this case smell it in everything,
but it doesn't seem overly alarming.

Cheers
BB
As I said, 2 years without a problem and then suddenly a plague!

 

[Brooksy]

Leave the deterg alone mate. Please.

Here is my system - from new fermenter.
1. unpack fermenter
2. Rinse
3. Fill with bottlewasher/santiser
4. Leave for 24hrs.
5. Empty and rinse.
6. Sanitise again, leave at least 10 mins.
7. Rinse and add brew.

After a brew.
1. Empty and rinse
2. Fill with bottlewasher/sanitiser
3. Leave for 24hrs
4. Empty and rinse with clean water.
5. Rinse with sanitiser & leave at least 10mins
6. Rinse and add brew.

The The last steps are carried out whilst your brew is cooling (if you boil) so the empty fermenter time is minimal.

Even a bead of sweat can contain millions of unwanted bacteria and will spoil a brew.

BB - why resort to poisoning yourself? I'd rather drink a crook HB and that GD awful VB. Mate, just don't do it. Me thinks thou needest counselling. :lol:
Mate the surface of your cube may be uncleanable. May have microscopic scratches in it that can harbour bacteria untouched by your sanitising efforts. The same as fermenters 'go off' after many, many brews.

 

[BoilerBoy]

BB - why resort to poisoning yourself? I'd rather drink a crook HB and that GD awful VB. Mate, just don't do it. Me thinks thou needest counselling. :lol:
Mate the surface of your cube may be uncleanable. May have microscopic scratches in it that can harbour bacteria untouched by your sanitising efforts. The same as fermenters 'go off' after many, many brews.

Yeah, your probably right about the VB, I've suffered enough!

As for the cubes which I have 7 of and some only 3 months old, I could accept 1 or 2 going bad, but just appearing out of no where and affecting at least 5 noted at this stage .... me thinks I smell a rat! (metaaphorically speaking of course ).

Cheers mate
BB

 

[Stuster]

Maybe you could fill them with water and leave them over night. Then taste the water to see if there's any flavour coming from the cubes.

 

[goatherder]

One thing I've noticed, is that the 'unscented' homebrand nappy treament from one store smells (and looks) identical to the 'lemon' nappy treatment from another store - so I don't really place much stock in their labelling to be honest, there's a good chance it's all the same stuff anyway, just with different labels to give the illusion of choice. If you think it could be fragrance from the napisan then maybe try something else for a while.

I'm with you there WortGames. I have had a whiff of pretty much every nappy treatment I've seen, homebrand and all. All bar one are scented, some more than others. The only unscented one I've found is Napisan BabyCare. It's a shame it's one of the more expensive ones. I'd love for someone to point me at an unscented cheaper brand. I don't think one exists.

 

[BoilerBoy]

Maybe you could fill them with water and leave them over night. Then taste the water to see if there's any flavour coming from the cubes.

Thats pretty much what Im thinking, though I will have to use the filtered tap water as its difficult to detect any isolated flavours in the fluridated chlorinated duck piss that comes from our taps here in Adelaide <_<

BB

 

[lucas]

I dont even use a cleaning agent on my fermenters. They get hosed out & crud wiped off with a chux type cloth & hosed out some more.
When theyre clean, they get a squirt of phos acid based no-rinse sanitiser from a squirt bottle & im done.

If the fermenters not being used again immediately, it will get a hot (boiling) water rinse before being filled.

I have a similar process. I started feeling guilty about doing a 37L napisan soak + rinsing every time i cleaned a fermenter so I bought one of those emjoy (?) type cleaning cloths. I clean each fermenter straight after use every time with just the cloth and hot water and store upside down. then on the fermenters next use I fill my 1L squirter bottle with double strength sanitiser (iodophor or hersil) and make sure all surfaces have been well covered. I reckon I'd have cut my water usage per fermenter down from ~40-50L+ per fermenter down to about 5-10L and I've never had an infection.

napisan is definitely cheap, easy and effective, and 10x better than using detergents, but using a little elbow grease is far less wasteful.

thats said, I still do full napisan soaks on my cube as I dont see any other way to get a thorough clean without it.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I have a similar process. I started feeling guilty about doing a 37L napisan soak + rinsing every time i cleaned a fermenter so I bought one of those emjoy (?) type cleaning cloths. I clean each fermenter straight after use every time with just the cloth and hot water and store upside down. then on the fermenters next use I fill my 1L squirter bottle with double strength sanitiser (iodophor or hersil) and make sure all surfaces have been well covered. I reckon I'd have cut my water usage per fermenter down from ~40-50L+ per fermenter down to about 5-10L and I've never had an infection.

napisan is definitely cheap, easy and effective, and 10x better than using detergents, but using a little elbow grease is far less wasteful.

thats said, I still do full napisan soaks on my cube as I dont see any other way to get a thorough clean without it.

A lot of my brewing is kinda back-to-back, so I can often reuse my wash water. I usually have something (either a fermenter or a cube) full of napisany water which is the soaker before rinsing and Iodophoring or Herlisiling.

I've occassionally thought of buying a big cube just to heave the wash water into - the more times I can get a soak out of a litre or twenty of water, the better I will feel (even if not actually helping save the planet)...

 

[discoloop]

I know the general consensus is that the soapy character is soap, but I just thought I'd throw into the mix that I've tasted soapy characteristics in beers before.

The most pronounced time I ever experienced this was cracking open a Squire's Pilsner immediately after polishing of a Schofferhofer (can't remember which one). Something about the flavour combination made the Squire's taste exactly like dishwater! :blink:
Soap ain't always soap!

 

[0M39A]

I know the general consensus is that the soapy character is soap, but I just thought I'd throw into the mix that I've tasted soapy characteristics in beers before.

The most pronounced time I ever experienced this was cracking open a Squire's Pilsner immediately after polishing of a Schofferhofer (can't remember which one). Something about the flavour combination made the Squire's taste exactly like dishwater! :blink:
Soap ain't always soap!

I think the same about VB

 

[MSR]

Hi All,

By now, I've done 5 brews in my fermenter and I'm noticing a bad pattern.

It never happens to my non-beer brews (Ginger Beer, Cider), but my beers have a funny taste.

My girlfriend LOVES my coopers canadian blonde brew, and everyone who's tried it seems to like it. But I cant help thinking theres this funny taste thats not quite right. Its kinda like its part of the malt flavour but its like the taste of dishwashing detergent. Very faint, and like I said, most ppl who have tried it dont know what Im going on about. But when I did brew of the Coopers Mexican Cerveza and drank it a week and a half after bottling that same taste was there but it was a lot worse. Again, anyone whos tried it thinks its great. (Oh, but its not, btw, I boiled limes in the water I used to mix in the brewing sugar dextrose, its the worlds lawnmowerest lawnmower beer, haha! But its for someone else, lol.) Back on topic, though I cant seem to figure out whats going on.

Could I have had an infection? If so, why only in my beers? (Or can I only TASTE it in my beers? I dont think so)
Could I have actually left some dishwashing detergent in my fermenter? Yes I use dishwashing detergent, its cheaper and if its good enough for my bottles
OR (I hope its this one) Is this slightly unusual flavour a part of K&K brewing and will disappear with a bit of maturation?

I fill my fermenter and add half to 1 cup of bleach, let it sit for at least an hour and then drain it through the tap. When empty rinse well then spray on a no rinse sanitiser. Easy.