No chill questions - Cube not filled

[TheApathyParty]

I had a few things go wrong with tonight's brew session, I was hoping someone on here might be able to shed some light or guide me in the right direction.

I brewed the ESB (all grain BIAB) from brewing classic styles, which I plugged into BeerSmith before hand. BeerSmith said I needed 32L mash volume to get 21L at end of boil, allowing for loss in the kettle. I ended up with about 17-18L in the cube, way shy of the full cube with excess I usually get.

I inverted the cube to make sure the handle would get a good amount of heat, left it for about 20min then put it in my temp controlled fridge.
Will the head space cause any staking or oxidation issues down the line? I'll probably pitch tomorrow night so it won't sit for too long.

Expected Gravity was 1.055, I ended up with 1.057. Should I dilute with sanitized water before fermentation? It will only get me about 1L at the most.

Second, where the hell did I go wrong? I'm pretty sure the Brewing Classic Styles recipes allow for 6 gallons at the end of boil, 5.5 gallons into fermenter and 5 at end of fermentation.
Almost 23L at the end of the boil should have been heaps, 3L trub loss. Have I miscalculated somewhere here?

The obvious solution for the future is to bump all recipes up a few liters to account for kettle loss, but I have ingredients for the BCS saison and don't want to come up short there too, especially if it will cause stealing or oxidation issues.

Thanks for the help guys

 

[ekul]

just squeeze all the air out of the cube that you can, it will be fine. Its happened to me many times

 

[Mickcr250]

It sounds like you might just be a bit low on efficiency, what did you work off? It can take a wile to work out your system / efficiency. Don't stress about the head space it won't oxidise unless you shake it when hot just make sure you pitch in the next few days. When I do doubles I can only fill the second cube to about 17 l and I just squish the cube down once filled ( don't do it now though) don't stress mate I would just pitch as is or dilute if you want its really up to you. Also with the saison I would plan for similar efficiency to your first brew so maybe keep some DME or even dex on hand

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

How long are you going to leave it in the cube?

Should be ok I think.

 

[TheWiggman]

If you want to work out efficiency then you need to use brewing software. Enter everything in as best you know, then at the end of the day enter your final volume and OG and this will spit out your efficiency. Enter this efficiency as your recipe efficiency for the next brew and keep doing this until your results are consistent.
As for the cube, advice above is sound. I wouldn't leave it in there for longer than 2 or 3 days though with that much head space. Why not try fermenting in the cube?

 

[user 25501]

If your fairly new to all grain & beersmith you need to calibrate your equipment. It sounds like you may of mis measured somewhere. Keep records of your boil off in Beersmith so you can get closer next time. I wouldn't bother increasing the volume of your wort but it won't hurt if you do add the sanitised water. I wouldn't be overly worried about the air space in your cube if your pitching today. It would be a concern if you were going to store it for some time.

 

[TheApathyParty]

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated! I'm pretty sure I calibrated my gear in BeerSmith properly. I'll have to check again.

 

[marksy]

Are you sure?

You have either,

1. Not collected 32L into kettle;
2. Not worked out your boil off rate, and boiled away your extra few Ls;
3. Not got your dead space right..

What were your numbers for the whole recipe? Grain, mash, kettle etc.


It does take a few brews to tune beersmith and your gear, you wouldnt think it, but it does. I have mine down now that I know that if I collect 40L into kettle I can fill my 2 16L cubes up to the lid with about 300ml to spare, everytime, without fail.

Chris.

 

[jonnir]

If you squeeze the air out as you should when no chilling, i wouldn't think you would have any air space in your cube? Is my thinking wrong?

 

[carpedaym]

Unrelated to your question, but I've seen people advise against putting a hot cube straight into the fridge, as the heat from the cube quickly warms up the air and it just becomes a sauna, with the fridge's insulated walls keeping more heat in than the fridge's cooling can offset efficiently.

Better to leave it somewhere open on some cold concrete with a larger thermal mass. I'm no expert, it's just what I've read briefly and subsequently what I do.

 

[marksy]

If you squeeze the air out as you should when no chilling, i wouldn't think you would have any air space in your cube? Is my thinking wrong?

If you sit the lid end of the cube on some timber, not too thick, but enough to make it the highest point you can fill the cube up right to the lid easily, then put the lid on all the way, un screw slightly and drive your knee into and you`ll hear the air come out, while thats happening screw the lid on. Leaving it out over night, you will have no air bubbles.

PS. The wort is still bloody hot, and re-tighten the lid after letting it sit on its side for 10mins, as the wort shrinks it can suck air in via the lid.

Unrelated to your question, but I've seen people advise against putting a hot cube straight into the fridge, as the heat from the cube quickly warms up the air and it just becomes a sauna, with the fridge's insulated walls keeping more heat in than the fridge's cooling can offset efficiently.

Better to leave it somewhere open on some cold concrete with a larger thermal mass. I'm no expert, it's just what I've read briefly and subsequently what I do.

How much quicker will a fridge chill a cube vs leaving it out over night in the garage? Mine is cold by early morning, the day after brewing. I would have only thought you would no-chill to help reduce the gunk the cube may collect going in.

 

[rude]

32 Litres to get 21 Litres thats 11 litres for boil off & losses
On my system I put 34 - 35 litres in kettle to get 24 litres in cube the other cube holds 23 litres
Depending on how much I get in the kettle is how hard I boil usually I boil pretty hard though 90 mins
You'll be right mate just adjust as you go along for next brew

 

[TheApathyParty]

Are you sure?

You have either,

1. Not collected 32L into kettle;
2. Not worked out your boil off rate, and boiled away your extra few Ls;
3. Not got your dead space right..

What were your numbers for the whole recipe? Grain, mash, kettle etc.


It does take a few brews to tune beersmith and your gear, you wouldnt think it, but it does. I have mine down now that I know that if I collect 40L into kettle I can fill my 2 16L cubes up to the lid with about 300ml to spare, everytime, without fail.

Chris.

I filled the kettle with an 8L pot 4 times, and have also made a 32L mark inside the kettle.

What's the dead space do?

 

[TheApathyParty]

Unrelated to your question, but I've seen people advise against putting a hot cube straight into the fridge, as the heat from the cube quickly warms up the air and it just becomes a sauna, with the fridge's insulated walls keeping more heat in than the fridge's cooling can offset efficiently.

Better to leave it somewhere open on some cold concrete with a larger thermal mass. I'm no expert, it's just what I've read briefly and subsequently what I do.

I just put it in the fridge so I could get to pitching temp without worrying about it later. It cooled pretty quickly.

 

[TheApathyParty]

If you squeeze the air out as you should when no chilling, i wouldn't think you would have any air space in your cube? Is my thinking wrong?

Yeah this is what I normally do, I tilt the cap end up do its the highest point and try to coax out all the oxygen. Still usually get a bubble though.

This brew is so low that the cube is squashed in on all sides and still nowhere near the cap.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

I chilled a cube recently.. basically because I did a high IBU beer - They chill real quick I find with ice in a bucket.. but it kinda goes against the whole 'no chill' thang lol.

I squeeze some air out of it - My personal preference is to do double batches (can only do 1 in the chamber at a time anyway) and use the cube within a week of sealing.

My LHBS, well ex- LHBS sold 20 litre cubes that can fit up to 25 L if squeezed etc - they are good cuz they have a strong seal - think they were like 15 dollars?

 

[rude]

I made up a measuring stick so check how I'm going along the ways

 

[jonnir]

I just fill with my silicone hose hanging to the bottom of my cube. Once I've drained all I can get just yell out to the wife to give me a hand.

I just squeeze the cube with a towel till the wort is right up the top and wife puts the lid on as tight she can. No air seems to get back in.

Hopefully my method is fine?

 

[Tahoose]

I made up a measuring stick so check how I'm going along the ways ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1413964748.954525.jpg ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1413964775.293627.jpg

This will work fine I'm sure,however I find another method a little easier to work with.

Measure the height and the diameter of the kettle (inside dimensions)

Calculate online the actual volume of the kettle. Work out how many litres there are per cm of height.

Get one of these
http://www.bunnings.com.au/craftright-600-and-300mm-stainless-steel-ruler-2-pack_p5660462

And go from there, I'm lucky as 1cm in my pot equals 2ltrs. And you get a free 30cm ruler for the shed/workshop.

 

[chubbytaxman]

I use BrewMate software (I am a bit of a tight wad as this one is free - I believe Beer Smith costs).
This may be my downfall as I cant seem to get my final volumes correct.
I have 6 or 7 cubes that are approx 25 Litre capacity and one that is 20 Litre capacity.
With this software the default seems to be 23.1 Litres ... Without fail, I cannot get the final volume to equal 20 Litres, let alone 23.
I expect losses due to boil off etc etc, however I usually end up with about 15 - 17 Litres in the cube.
I now have upped the ante in BrewMate to 29 Litres hoping to get a bit more wort into the cube.

*I have only made about 8 - 10 batches of beer and I think my system is still "finding itself" .. lol.

My rig comprises a mix of brewing setups ... :blink:
I use BIAB method (esky and bag), then drain off a couple of litres - recircle to the mash tun until wort is clearer.
Then drain to the kettle and sparge grains with boiling water.
After the boil, I either crash chill (if fermenting straight away) or cube to ferment later.

This seems to work as I have put out a couple of half decent beers using this method.

Just have to work on the final volume bit .... :beer:

Cheers

chubby