New To Ibus

[reVoxAHB]

Hey gang,

As the topic title suggests, I'm new to determining hop IBUs in a recipe; would appreciate guidance with an upcoming brew planned for the weekend.

I'll be brewing the Stone (American) IPA: Rate Beer review here and Beer Advocate review here. Stone Brewing Company website here

The recipe I've dug up, which seems pretty spot on calls for:

Hops:

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.37 oz. (95.54g) Yakima Magnum Pellet 13.50 215.5 90 min.
1.50 oz. (42.52g) Centennial Pellet 9.00 0.0 0 min.
2.50 oz. (70.87g) Centennial Pellet 9.40 0.0 Dry Hop
*full ProMash Recipe Report follows the post.

Now, as I'm not able to source Magnum or Centennial pellets here in Aus, Belgrave Brewer suggested I substitute:

Yakima Magnum Pellet 13.50AA (sub with) Northern Brewer 9.5AA
Centennial Pellet 9.0AA (sub with) Cascade 6.7AA


Maths:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found the AHB Hops Calc whereby I plugged in a 1 unit AA conversion for Magnum to NB=
1 units of hops with an alpha acid strength of 13.50 is equal to 1.421 units of hops with an alpha acid strength of 9.5.

Does this mean I use the following maths:
95.54g (Mag) X 1.421 = 135.76g (NB) to be used 90 min.
42.52g (Cent) X 1.343 = 57.10g (Cas) to be used 0 min.
70.87g (Cent) X 1.343 = 95.17g (Cas) Dry Hop
?


Other:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found on the net: "FWIW, I picked up a Stone IPA coaster at a bar last month, and it lists the hops as Magnum, Centennial and Chinook to arrive at 77 IBU."

Is there such a thing as Starting and Arriving IBU?

In ProMash, I used the Hop IBU Calculator selecting Magnum with 13.50AA, 95.54g, 23.0L Boiled Wort, SG1.079, 90 Minute Boil, Form: Pellet and it's showing IBUs of 177.13 (and that's just the magnum).

Would this be starting IBU?

Obviously, the goal as the coaster and Stone website suggests, is to "arrive" at 77IBUs.

Thanks all,
reVox

Am I brewing the Death-Star? I already have a flux-capacitor.


*
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Stone 5th Anniversary IPA

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

14-B India Pale Ale, American IPA

Min OG: 1.056 Max OG: 1.075
Min IBU: 40 Max IBU: 72
Min Clr: 6 Max Clr: 15 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.25
Anticipated OG: 1.079 Plato: 19.04
Anticipated SRM: 7.1
Anticipated IBU: 215.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.45 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.061 SG 14.97 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
93.4 14.25 lbs. Pale Malt (2 row) Schreier U.S. 1.037 2
6.6 1.00 lbs. Crystal 20L America 1.035 20

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.37 oz. Yakima Magnum Pellet 13.50 215.5 90 min.
1.50 oz. Centennial Pellet 9.00 0.0 0 min.
2.50 oz. Centennial Pellet 9.40 0.0 Dry Hop


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Whirlfloc Fining 15 Min.(boil)
1.00 Unit(s)Servomyces (yeast nutrient) Other 10 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 1764 Rogue Pac Man (original recipe calls for wlp001)


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 15.25
Water Qts: 19.82 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.95 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 148 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.18 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[Duff]

Mate, that is the Ruination IPA. Check the receipe section above for a version.

For Magnum and Centennial, you can buy them in Australia. Click on Craftbrewer above.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Mate, that is the Ruination IPA. Check the receipe section above for a version.

Actually, the Ruination IPA (also brewed by Stone, and often considered superior to the standard IPA) has IBU's in the 100+ range (as per Stone's website) and Ross' recipe at 117.8 IBU & 8.37% alc.

The beer I'm attempting to replicate has IBU's of 77 & 6.9% alc.

Generally speaking, these are two very similar beers

For Magnum and Centennial, you can buy them in Australia. Click on Craftbrewer above.

Fantastic! You've just opened a whole new door for me :beerbang: much appreciated! Will place an order today, and brew the Stone IPA next weekend (using what I have around the house now, for a different brew). OT: Craftbrewer is run on joomla! cool B)

I would still like to learn what everyone uses to calculate IBU's, whether coming up with a recipe from scratch
or substituting hops in an existing recipe, etc.

Found on the net: "FWIW, I picked up a Stone IPA coaster at a bar last month, and it lists the hops as Magnum, Centennial and Chinook to arrive at 77 IBU."

Is there such a thing as Starting and Arriving IBU?

In ProMash, I used the Hop IBU Calculator selecting Magnum with 13.50AA, 95.54g, 23.0L Boiled Wort, SG1.079, 90 Minute Boil, Form: Pellet and it's showing IBUs of 177.13 (and that's just the magnum).

Would this be starting IBU?

Obviously, the goal as the coaster and Stone website suggests, is to "arrive" at 77IBUs.

Can anyone shed further light on the above?

Cheers,
reVox

 

[Duff]

So you want to brew a beer which you have found a clone style receipe of, but that said clone has a total IBU figure of 215.5, however in your ProMash calculation using the database AA% level of Magnum it comes to 177.13 but you want to 'arrive' at an IBU level of 77?

Arriving at 77IBU's is the final total in your finished beer, post boil. If that is the case, I would suggest reducing the quantity of Magnum to arrive at 77IBU's, then add your Centennial at flameout at a relative reduced rate as well to keep the desired flavour balance in effect.

 

[Jye]

If you want to reduce the IBUs I would do what Duff suggested, but really the difference between 77 and 100+ IBUs is so little you could just stick with the original recipe you posted.

I think you'll find the word 'arrive' just means that is their IBU goal.

Most brewers dont calculate the IBUs from scratch, get a trial version of beersmith and promash and see which one you prefer.

Jye

 

[kook]

With American IPAs you can pretty much ignore the calculated IBUs as far as I'm concerned. Whilst Stone IPA may be a measured 77 IBUs, trying to replicate a beer like that on a homebrew scale may require a much higher calculated IBU level.

 

[PostModern]

With American IPAs you can pretty much ignore the calculated IBUs as far as I'm concerned. Whilst Stone IPA may be a measured 77 IBUs, trying to replicate a beer like that on a homebrew scale may require a much higher calculated IBU level.

*nod*. Also, it's pretty hard to taste the difference in IBUs at that level. The level of malt matters more than the calculated IBU's imho. Get the mash temp right!

 

[Jye]

Whilst Stone IPA may be a measured 77 IBUs, trying to replicate a beer like that on a homebrew scale may require a much higher calculated IBU level.

Why is this kook? What is the different between a homebrewed IPA at 77 IBUs and a commercial example at 77 IBUs?

 

[MHB]

There are easier equations, ones that use metric to.

Attached is an excel sheet that works pretty well up to about 100 IBU. I doubt you can get over 100 IBU with home brewing equipment.

View attachment 12266

MHB

 

[Weizguy]

Jye,

I believe that Kook is alluding to the lower bitterness extraction that a lot of homebrewers achieve, as compared to commercial-size brewers.

It may also be a consideration that some brew calculators do not adjust for the lower hop utilisation in higher gravity wort, or for less efficient hop extraction in hop bags/stockings etc.

As PoMo mentioned, it's hard to taste the difference in bitterness above 75 IBUs. The maltiness/IBU/hop flavour balance will affect the bitterness experienced by the drinker.
...or was it the 100IBU NSW Brewers Guild special Ale that you're talking about, Po Mo? :lol:
At that alcohol strength, you don't get too many tastes before you're unsure of any of the flavours or bitterness.

I have also heard that the human palate is unable to detect bitterness much above 100 IBU. Thanks MHB for that reminder.

Beerz
Seth

 

[kook]

Why is this kook? What is the different between a homebrewed IPA at 77 IBUs and a commercial example at 77 IBUs?

No difference whatsoever, if that is actual *measured* IBUs, not *estimated* IBUs as provided by tinseth or other formulas.

As stated by Les, we tend to have lower utilisation when hopping rates are increased. Theres also the actual solubility of hop acids too. An example is the homebrew recipe for Pliny the Elder. It is supposedly a directly scaled down recipe, which calculates out at something like 270+ IBUs. In reality though, it is less than 100 measured IBUs.

I'd have no problem with 150+ "calculated" IBU in an AIPA or IIPA.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Thanks Duff and Jye for recommendations regarding this brew. Thanks all, for the additional information w/IBU.

I do own ProMash and was initially using the individual Hop IBU Calculator, doing it from scratch.. later realized within the recipe itself, I can scale and calculate IBU on the fly, based on hops, amount, boil time, etc. handy!

Makes much more sense now, overall. Can't wait to brew this one when I get my Magnum and Cent. hops! Especially looking forward to using Centennial's for the first time to see if I can detect the pine character so many reference when using this hop.

Cheers again all,
reVox