My "belgian Sour Brown" Project

[jonw]

Hello folks,

I'm in the process of making an Orval-style Belgian Ale. The recipe is basically the same as that in Jamil's Brewing Network podcast, and goes something like this for a 28L batch:-

Weyermann Pilsner 5.50 kg
Weyermann CaraMunich II 0.850 kg
Sugar - White Sugar/Sucrose 0.650 kg (at end of boil)

Mash for 90min @ 67C.

Hallertauer 80 g @ 60 min
NZ Styrian Goldings 45g @ 15min
NZ Styrian Goldings 45g @ 0 min.
NZ Styrian Goldings 90g dry hopped

Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 40 IBU
Expected Color (using Morey): 26 EBC
Expected OG: 1.057 SG
Expected ABV: 6.2 %

It's taken me so long to get round to posting this that it's a bit late for recipe advice - it's in the fermenter bubbling away with a Wyeast Belgian Ardennes. When the primary is finished, I'll transfer it to secondary, pitch a White Labs Bret Brux, and leave it to rot for a month or two. The dry hops will go in for the last week of secondary, and then I'll bottle.

The brew day went OK - the boil had a fantastic smell of caramel. I ended up with 30L with an OG of 1.055 - should I add a little more sugar? I also had to sub a little (20g) B Saaz in the last addition as I'd run out of Goldings. I had made a starter of the Ardennes and pitched that on Tuesday, and it took off within 24 hours.

I'm really looking for some advice on how to conduct the secondary and bottling. I have an old fermeter that I can dedicate to Brett use - Is it OK to leave beer in plastic for a couple of months (under the house) or should I go with a glass carbouy? I'd rather not fork out for the latter. I've done a fair amount of reading, and it seems most people are pretty wary of getting Brett in contact with anything that'll be used for 'normal' beers. I envisage keeping the fermenter/tap as Brett only, but priming bucket, bottling wand etc. with all just get a good soak in acidified bleach.

Do I need to make a starter for the Brett, or can I just pitch the vial straight into the secondary? It'll be stored under the house at ambient temperature (probably about 13C at the moment) which I'm hoping isn't too cold for the yeast, even if it just does its thing a little more slowly. How do you go about culturing Brett (and is that a good idea?!) I've heard of people adding oak cubes to the secondary, which subsequently get inoculated with bugs. How do you keep those cubes between brews - just dry them out and put them in a placcy bag? The vial of yeast doesn't have the usual thick layer of goo plus liquid - it just looks like a viscous solution, so I'm guessing I'm not going to get a layer of Brett at the bottom of my secondary vessel.

I'm planning on bottling using a starter of the primary yeast. How would I calculate the priming rate i.e. should I use my normal bulk primiing rate (say 8g/L DME) make up a starter, and then bottle before it gets going (and assume that I'm more or less priming with all the suger that was in the starter?)

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Quintrex]

Maybe read the following info by raj apte on flemish red, similar relevence to your sour brown.

http://www2.parc.com/emdl/members/apte/flemishredale.shtml

for extended aging with brett. and/or bug fermentations in the brew glass is needed(or a vessel which has low oxygen permeability-consult the table raj apte has on his page),if you have it in a container with a higher oxygen permeability too much acetic acid is formed, which isn't as pleasant as lactic.
Glass can also be sanitised more effectively than plastic.

Brettanomyces is essentially still yeast(wild) and can be cultured by making starters, although I think they can also reside on oak.

I have some bugs from the roeselare blend sitting on some oak chips under beer. although I think you could probably just keep it under some clean water or maybe it would even be tolerant of drying out.

You should try and get a copy of wild brews, a really good read if you are into this kinda stuff.

Be careful with priming, there will be plenty of brett. still active, so no fresh yeast should be necessary, however be extremely careful that it has reached terminal gravity(this could take a long time) before priming with a high amount. Otherwise you will end up with bottle bombs.

Good luck
Q

 

[Stuster]

Well, I aged my Roeselare in plastic for 8 months and it hasn't become intensely sour. Two months with the brett will be fine. I've left plenty of non-wild beers in secondary that long without any issues. Glass is nice, but.....

I think it's fine to use your normal bottling equipment. As Quintrex says, it's just (different) yeast and I see no reason a good sanitation regime shouldn't stop them contaminating future batches.

You should get the same layer of slurry you get normally. Culture that like normal. Again, I think Quintrex is right that there's no need to add more yeast as it should be fine to carbonated after only a couple of months. Just prime as normal. HTH.

 

[jonw]

Thanks for the advice guys.

That article was interesting reading, even if the science content was a little inaccessible! While glass may be ideal in terms of oxygen permeability, it's worth noting that many beers from this region are aged in oak, which is rather more premeable than plastic. On that basis (and my reluctance to fork out ~$80 for glass) I think I'll stick with the old fermenter.

Do you think bottle conditioning will take any longer with the Brett ddoing the work? (not that it matters really.)

Cheers,

Jon

 

[Stuster]

Actually, according to the Raj Apte article that Quintrex linked to, plastic fermenters are more permeable than oak barrels.

I don't think it'll take much longer to carb up with that batch. Of course, there'll be both brett and your primary yeast in there and both should still be kicking along after a two month secondary. No need for rush anyway.

I'd recommend transferring to the secondary with the brett pretty early to give the brett something to munch on and produce some of its yummy flavour. ]

 

[Quintrex]

Hi Jon
How long do you think you will age it, most flanders reds and oud bruins are aged for a year at ambient temperatures, however if you are keeping it in secondary for 9 months or less time than that, than using plastic fermenters and the extra oxygen permeability shouldn't present too much of an issue.

If you want more character development in less time you could consider a warm aging at 27 deg C for 4 weeks or so, which will fast track acid development, the major concern I have with shorter secondary periods is, that if it hasn't fully attenuated you will probably end up with bottle bombs.

Good luck
Q

 

[jonw]

How long do you think you will age it

I'm only planning on aging it in secondary for a couple of months, until the Brett has finished doing its thing. Hopefully that will only take a couple of months. Then I'll either keg or bulk prime and bottle - probably the latter, in which case it'll be aged in the bottles for quite a while.

Cheers,

Jon