My 2V RIMS (AdRIMS/RIHMS) Build

[Adr_0]

Well, the silicone in the mash tun didn't really work: it was too flexible and the hole was too small to get a decent fill.

So I instead drilled out to about 22mm, chewed some of the insulation away and cut into the inside with a stanley knife and file:


I then put Knead It Aqua all the way through, completely plugging up the hole. I did a test plug on another esky and it's really really important to mix this stuff properly otherwise you don't get the hardness (you get soft bits). Knead it from the outside:


And after drilling through with a 22mm spade bit.

I also have a 1/2" SS nut with a heavy duty silicone o-ring. This needed some sanding to get a fairly flat surface on the inside. I then just use a 3/4" galv washer + thick copper nut on the outside, pulling out then lightly tightening to get a decent amount of o-ring compression.

The manifold now has an extra bit of tube on the end, and this slides in nicely to the 1/2" threaded pipe. Beautiful. The result is about 30-50mL of deadspace! Should help 'chasing' temperatures with infusion mashes (which I will do for a while) and also the lauter efficiency - no precious sugars left in the mash tun.


I also threw an angle grinder and 10mm drill bit at the lid, to fit a SS ruler and 1/4" probe + 6mm silicone hose. Works beautifully. The 360mm diameter pot = 1cm for each litre, so should work well.

 

[Adr_0]

I have also done the probe for the mash tun and the plumbing into the top. The probe was a 10mm spade bit after filling up a ~14mm hole with Knead It Aqua, so the 1/4" tube + 6mm silicone hose gives a beautiful seal. The copper tube will just join up to a bit of 1/2" silicone hose so that I can open the lid easily.


Speaking of which... the probe is nice and deep but doesn't foul on the front. Sweet!


And the mash tun in place with most of the header lines. Still haven't done the feed in line to the kettle and mash tun, and have removed the kettle for the pic:


During a heat test of the kettle and ruler (to make sure hte paint won't come off), it looks like I'm good at some things but miss the basics other times - way off end on. So will have to cut the 3/4" tube back a bit.


Next up is finalising the inlet lines for the kettle and mash tun, final shelving and pump wiring, hook up the plate chiller and do a clean!

 

[seehuusen]

looks great man! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product

 

[Adr_0]

Oh wow, didn't realise it had been so long since doing an update. The setup shown above worked very well actually, but I wasn't totally happy with the sealing between the Knead-It and the (cut) polyethylene walls of the esky and the inlet wasn't in the best spot for reading temps... so redid it in this manner:

-22mm spade bit (very gently/slowly) and coated the inside with silicone (Silastic 732 from memory)
-1/2" threaded SS pipe, soldered this (silver solder) to 1/2" SS washer
Deadspace is maybe 20-50mL? There is a tiny bit there that doesn't drain away, but it's essentially insignificant.

So the overall 2V setup looks like this:

The control box is purely for indication of kettle and mash temperature (2 x STC's) and for pump control. I will putting my PID/element control in a separate box on top of this.

The heat exchanger is mounted that way mostly for lack of room and laziness. I tried a mounting for recirculation, but I I don't get enough cooling power through the plate hx and I'm not super-fussed about letting cold break through into the fermenter, so I've put it just as a gravity drain from the kettle. If you mount these things with the nozzles horizontal, make sure they are as vertical as possible to avoid air pockets between the plates. For e.g., mounting with the ports horizontal and the whole thing horizontally would be a very bad idea... but if the ports were vertical (air can escape) it would be fine.

This setup has a pretty solid suction header (3/4" copper) which can be lined up in one of two ways:
- kettle only for infusions and whirlpool
- mash tun only for recirc or transfer

The LBP is actually mounted vertically (pump head down) and has a 20x15 reducing elbow straight into it (again trying to avoid air pockets). Works a treat.

The discharge header allows me to send it from the pump to where I want it:
- Back to kettle for pre-heating, transfer from mash tun and recirc
- To mash tun for infusions or recirc


I normally get 70-75% brewhouse efficiency and 77-85% mash efficiency, generally based on SG's in the high 40's (what you would call a normal 10lb grain per 5gal batch), but the whole point of this setup was to get brewhouse efficiency bang on mash efficiency, i.e. no deadspace. These figures were from when I had the plate hx on the back side through a separate recirc loop, and didn't bother draining everything properly. Since simplifying things a bit this should go up a lot.

I love the setup as it is pretty user-friendly, good to clean and all the fluid movement is automated. I can't do a multi-step infusion mash though, and because of the small esky volume I need to be disciplined with my pre-heating otherwise I will come up short for mash out temp and lose a bit of efficiency.

So I'm finally gearing up to put an element in and turn it into a proper RIHMS system. More shortly...

 

[TheWiggman]

I love the setup as it is pretty user-friendly, good to clean and all the fluid movement is automated. I can't do a multi-step infusion mash though

Why can't you do an infusion mash? I thought that was the main benefit/design of this system. Hence the AdRIMS concept.
Heat HLT water, close MT drain, open HLT drain, pump away?

 

[Adr_0]

Why can't you do an infusion mash? I thought that was the main benefit/design of this system. Hence the AdRIMS concept.
Heat HLT water, close MT drain, open HLT drain, pump away?

Oh you're right, I absolutely can. Pumping from one to the other works an absolute treat, but because of my small mash tun (25L) I just don't have a lot of error for temperature for multi step mashes around the 20L batch size, unless I decoct. Most batches are absolutely fine but (like any system) there are some limitations. The positives far outweigh these limitations, but the perfectionist in me is pushing for better ease of use, flexibility and repeatability... Especially with a young one at home now.

 

[Adr_0]

Damn, lost my post.

In a nutshell, and like any infusion system, I can't do a 44, 55, 62, 71 wheat beer and expect to hit mash out temp (or even the alpha temp to be honest) unless I reduce my batch size, stiff mash, preheat etc. This is because I have a 25L mash tun, so it will always be an issue... Hence the employment of a 2200W element shortly.

 

[Adr_0]

So, I've done a bit more work on this:
- Element end of RIMS tube done
- RTD end of RIMS tube done
- Main control box, I've swapped out the variable voltage pump controller to a PWM - hopefully much more reliable control
- I've completed my element controller box, which is a simple box shown below:


SSR shown mounted inside the box with heatsink outside, pretty normal I think


The box here basically assembled. I used glands for all the cables coming in so should be pretty solid. I have used this main switch to isolate the element, more for safety and so I can continue brewing if it fails. The PID controller is isolated off my main control box via a plug.


You can see (sorry about the poor quality image) the RTD probe that I've soldered into the plate on the end of the RIMS tube. This will pick up temperature as it's leaving the RIMS tube. The plan is to have fairly aggressive control, with a decent recirc rate and control fairly aggressively off the RIMS tube volume. Hopefully this way my overshoot is minimised. I can also do transfer trim control, and add another 2200W to heat between sparge/pre-boil and boil to shave some time off my day.

Next up:
- Mounting the RIMS tube
- Sparge/MT inlet distribution manifold
- Test and brew.

I was hoping to knock out a hefeweizen this weekend to be ready for the SE Qld case swap, but working 70hrs a week and having an 8 week old at home tends to throw planning out a bit... ah well.

 

[Adr_0]

So, bit more progress today.

This is just the two control boxes together: element PID controller on top with element isolation; and the bottom box has kettle temp on left, pump speed control in middle, mash tun temp on the right.


Down the bottom I have the RIMS tube sitting on blocks that will be screwed/glued onto the bottom shelf level once the tubing alignment is all spot on:

You can see the LBP in the background, and the discharge nozzle just in front of this. This will be replaced by the nozzle in the foreground, the element will go on the front tube plate and the RTD on the back tube plate.

The tube has been mounted this way to guarantee absolutely no air in the tube for the protection of the element. It is level and air will go out the back threaded nozzle up gently sloped tube into the main discharge line and valves.

Next is terminating the element and re-mounting the junction boxes, screw/glue the blocks and do the final plumbing.

Then might do a water/PBW fill and do some tuning.

 

[Adr_0]

So [my local electrician] did up the junction box last night with the connection to the element:


And now have the element controller connected to the junction box and element, and the tube mounted. RTD has already been soldered to the tube end plate, so almost there.


In the immediate foreground (yellow valve) is the line coming down from the mash tun. You can then see the vertically mounted LBP, and the discharge from this going into the RIMS tube. The element goes around to the back junction box, and the white junction box in front is just a kill switch that I used to use when pumping through the plate heat exchanger. Now it's a nice feature that I can go "Why the f@#$ isn't my pump working??" and can look down and realise it's off for some reason.


Nice little terminal block (I'm not sure why I didn't just use normal crappy terminal strip) and earth post which I'm happy with.

Unfortunately the top connection to the RIMS tube isn't vertical in either axis, so putting a 90° elbow points the tube down quite a bit... bugger. So I will have to perhaps use a bit of silicone tube to a small tube stub instead. Bugger.

 

[Adr_0]

Cool, so she's basically done!



Only about 3.5hrs of time over the weekend put into it which I was happy with.

I did a quick test with some guesses on PID values:
P 0.3 (setting was actually 30 but this controller has gain x 100)
I 60s
D 0

The test was with about 60% volume of what I'd use during a brew. I limited the output to 90% to make sure I didn't blow a fuse.

Positives:
- No fires
- No electrocutions
- worked
- Good ramp rate with no overshoot, so my design works well.

Negatives:
- Seem to have 0.7°C error of the PID control temp vs my 2 x thermistors
- Need to do some more tuning

Here is a shot of the control boxes during the initial test:


And the initial ramp rate test:

Which ended up being 2.1°/min including warmup, but was about 2.5°/min. With a full batch (this was only 60%) I should be able to get 1°C/min which is what I was aiming for, so happy that the 2200W element was the pick... and that was at 90%. I will try 100% next time and make sure I don't blow a fuse or CB.

Cool...

So to do next:
- Tidy up all the wiring...
- Final insulation
- Correct the 0.7°C error
- Final tuning

 

[TheWiggman]

Good stuff man. Damn kids impeding brewing progress, but hey welcome to life
I expect some award winning beers now. Dunkel for the first brew?

 

[Adr_0]

Anyone know the best way to put video on AHB?

 

[Adr_0]

Good stuff man. Damn kids impeding brewing progress, but hey welcome to life
I expect some award winning beers now. Dunkel for the first brew?

Yeah, I figure while I previously had an 80% chance of being able to do some brewing or brew tinkering when I wanted, that has dropped to about 20% now. It's fine, no point setting unrealistic expectations and just sneak out for 10min or an hour and get some more done.

Not sure about the award winning beers, need some actual nous for that. First beer will be a hefeweizen and although I would normally do a couple of lagers my stocks are drying up a bit so I need to punch out a couple of beers with a fast turnaround. Definitely looking forward to a bit more consistency, flexibility, time saved and efficiency. The consistency and flexibility should help the beer quality, but as I said still need the nous before the winning of any awards.

 

[Mardoo]

Yeah, I figure while I previously had an 80% chance of being able to do some brewing or brew tinkering when I wanted, that has dropped to about 20% now. It's fine, no point setting unrealistic expectations and just sneak out for 10min or an hour and get some more done.

Exactly why I'm buying into Lael's kit build of the Matho controller. Between spending time with my family and my wife's chronic pain I have SFA time to brew. Large blocks of time are harder for me than an hour here and there. I figure if I can mostly automate the mashing process and strike water heating it'll help me out.

Edit: I realize you've built yourself a cool little controller. Just crapping on, as my avatar indicates.

 

[Adr_0]

I should have really gone for the 2352P, which has programmable steps. Unfortunately it doesn't have Manual, which I really wanted for some reason.

That reason has now left me, and I now have to manually step through everything. Bugger.

I keep seeing threads on Matho's controller, I will have to look at it. I think most of my desires would be met with the P model.

Brewing is great therapy, as is franking the end product. It's disappointing when we don't have as much time as we'd like to do it, but there are many ways to skin a kitten...

 

[Adr_0]

Geez. So I'm in progress of changing a few things. A few things work extremely well:
1) The 3/4" hard-plumbed pump suction header and the vertical pump work extremely well (both LBP and KK). No dramas with air and can run through a full range of flow with no cavitation issues
2) The valving is good. Drains/vacuum breaker in the right spot and good flexibility for sparging while bringing first runnings to the boil, or heating sparge water while mashing.
3) The bottom draw-offs from the kettle and mash tun are excellent, as I'm able to run both basically dry. Good for cleaning and for brewhouse efficiency.
4) Like any RIMS, it's nice and simple and hitting/maintaining setpoints is a piece of cake.

Unfortunately I think the copper is killing some of the flavour in my beers. I've consciously noted the grain complexity and freshness isn't there - vs previous 3V keggle setup and 2V custom SS mash tun - and have had feedback in comps that beers aren't malty enough (even when doing decoctions). Long story short I suspect the copper oxide is dissociating and basically saturating the wort with O2 (up to 3-4ppm) all through the mash.

So, changing over to SS. Fittings are extremely expensive, and seamless tube is a bit painful to get - though if you're in WA you might have more joy - and make sure you only get the 0.9mm thick stuff, as most oil and gas stuff is 1.2-1.6mm and will be too hard to bend. Anyway, bit that particular bullet... and bending 3/4" was ok when full of sand.

Photos below:

A close-up of the mash tun coming down into the main pump suction header. SS thread tape, and a lot of the fittings (threads) are seal welded - soldered - with SS soldering wire. Actually quite easy to do, and generally cleans up well. SS head on the KK was not essential but it's stronger... I had to knock one or two casting defects off but it was OK otherwise. Old copper seen in the background...


A photo with more progress. The first tee from the kettle/HLT is a drain for sparge water and boiled/cooled wort. Since this is upstream of the main isolation I can do mashing while heating up sparge water, drain it into a 20L plastic jerry can then we're away.

The drain at the bottom is on the pump suction header. It can also act as a fill point for said sparge water, from said 20L plastic jerry can...

Anyway, getting there. Should only be another year or two...

 

[Adr_0]

PS - you can see the soldering (with SS wire - no silver/lead/tin...) on the bottom tee just upstream of the drain elbow, and the top tee. It was just stuff from ebay and seems to be pretty good....

 

[Adr_0]

Finally starting to take shape. I even got it to the point where I did a leak test on the bottom half and by some miracle didn't have any leaks at the fittings. I'm sure one or two will come up when it's running in anger.

I would have it finished but a tube compression tee I had went missing... not sure if I was responsible, my daughter was, my wife, or my dog... but it's gone so buggrit.

This is the inlet to the mash tun, now SS. This will be insulated - yet to put on. Existing hole is for a digital temperature probe to monitor MT temps, and the other one is for a CO2 purge connection if I decide to use it. Inside will be silicone hose. Because this is hard piped on a flip lid, I use silicone hose as a 'hinge' on the left side.


This one shows the valves pretty well. In the left foreground is the strike water supply; next back is the MT inlet to the suction header; and top foreground is the drain for sparge water and final cooled wort. There is a drain at the bottom that sparge water can be plumbed back into - from a plastic jerry can.


This shows the sparge water/cooled wort drain, where it tees off the main line


RIMS tube here - note the definite slope up to the end of the element and temperature probe. Hopefully this minimises air pockets.


From the RIMS tube it should go into a tee - up to the mash tun or back to the kettle. This is to transfer first/second/third runnings, and can also be a pre-heat line if needed. I need to adjust my support pad thingies, but it will sit approximately here. The top valve is a vacuum breaker, to prevent siphoning my boiling hot wort out if I drain the suction header for cleaning. The top barb can also fit to CO2 purge if I need.


And inside the kettle. The silicone should help seal a little, when the lid comes down as well. Nothing particularly special, but no built-in whirlpooling.


So hopefully only a couple of hours more work, get the fermenters and freezer sorted and time to brew again!

 

[Adr_0]

Well this has changed a bit from its first dirty copper incarnation, but happy with how things are looking.

Front view:

The valve at the bottom (half open) is a multi-purpose drain, and also a fill line for sparge water into the pump suction header.

The overall setup permits me to bottom-fill the strike water if I wish, to a certain point.

Back view with the connections to the control box and distribution valves to the mash tun/kettle:


Top down view between the mash tun and kettle:



Pretty happy with how it's turned out. The 2 x 10L cubes on top are for sparge water and final brew if I choose not to no chill without chilling.