Mashmate/2400w Element Blowing Inline 10a Fuse

[LethalCorpse]

Yep.. got it from johnathon's post, dude... but thanks for your reassurance

good stuff :icon_chickcheers:

 

[eamonnfoley]

foles, you've missed the point of what the fuses are for. The fuse in the equipment should ensure that it can't draw more than 10A, which is the rating of the outlets and plugs before it. Almost all domestic 10A outlets will be protected by 16A fuses, because the manufacturer of the equipment is supposed to ensure that it doesn't exceed 10A. The problem here is that we've got a 10A rated system trying to deliver a little over 10A. The fix is not to remove the fuse, or use a bigger fuse. The fix is either to install higher rated outlets and interconnects (and hence fuse), or a lower rated element.

:unsure: - agree you will be better with a higher rated outlet. But ill stand by my statement, that a key purpose of fuses is for protection against short circuits. They are also for overload as you have pointed out.

 

[reg]

The key element that fuses are for is to protect the cabling within a house.

Hence why lighting circuits are generally 10 amp ( 1mm or 1.5mm cable) and power cables are 15 - 20 amp (2.5mm).

Sure they also protect against shorts but they are their to protect the cable hence why different environments and fuse types actually derate the fuses. eg a circuit breaker as opposed to a rewirable fuse, or run in open air as opposed to running through insulation.

There are a whole range of factors that could be causing the problems in the opening post so how about we stop speculating till I can get around and have a look on the weekend.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Is this really advice from an licensed electrican? The "pulling" comes from the connected load, i.e. element. The cable should always be rated higher than the protective device (i.e. fuse) and the load. Otherwise you risk burning your house down.

Yep. It actually was. Thing is, I didn't ask to see his license when he rocked up to my house. I wouldn't have thought I had to. Was assured (via my electrician who referred and booked him) that he's fully licensed, not a problem. I rang my electrician 9AM this Monday morning, leaving a message asking I be phoned immediately by this bloke, too.. no answer to date. Granted it's only late Tuesday but hey a call back.. how hard can it be? Both electricians are off my list, btw. Won't ring either, again.

Lesson learned. I'll enquire with any trades person be it plumber, electrician, etc. to see a license before work is started. I would assume it's a certificate of some sort which he/she will have in their truck, or? Please advise.

I mean, I hired a bloody electrician in the first place as I knew I was clearly out of my league and in the scheme of things, when you start piss farting around with life and liberty for a few hundred bucks, yer a moron.

And here I'm standing holding my dick, moron written all over my face, having done (or tried to do) the right thing. Well, bless me.

Next time I order a steak at a restaurant, I'll ask to see the chef's certification, too.. because after all, a bad steak can kill you.

But seriously, this just blows as I only want to brew beer. The journey's been interesting though.

Cheers,
reVox

 

[LethalCorpse]

And here I'm standing holding my dick, moron written all over my face, having done (or tried to do) the right thing. Well, bless me.

You did do everything right. It's not your fault you got a lemon, and because you don't know what he's supposed to know, you can't spot the BS. Even the ugly wiring in the box isn't really your fault, because you can't have known exactly what you're supposed to do in that sort of wiring enclosure - it was his job to tell you it wasn't great and how to correct it. Just chalk the whole thing up to experience and recognise that even qualified people can be idiots.

 

[reg]

Lesson learned. I'll enquire with any trades person be it plumber, electrician, etc. to see a license before work is started. I would assume it's a certificate of some sort which he/she will have in their truck, or? Please advise.

The licence is a silver card the size of a credit card and they should have it in their wallet.

 

[reVoxAHB]

hey, so reg came over and took a look at my setup. he determined the element is pulling 10.2A. he also found one of the pegs that i attach the wires to (on the element) was loose. It was attached enough to where it was working, but only just. he rectified it for me. It's an older crimp style system where the peg kinda crimps to the element.

I also cleaned up my wiring, installed cable glands and used a 12A slow-blow for yesterday's brew. Smooth sailing; didn't blow a single fuse .

I want to thank everyone for the feedback with this and I especially want to thank reg for taking the time to come on down to my place. would've been a 30 minute drive for him. I absolutely love this community and the support we provide one another, as brewers.

all the best blokes,
reVox

 

[LethalCorpse]

used a 12A slow-blow for yesterday's brew.

wrong.

 

[MartinS]

I also cleaned up my wiring, installed cable glands and used a 12A slow-blow for yesterday's brew. Smooth sailing; didn't blow a single fuse .

And you had him check that your circuit can handle 15A (with an appropriate breaker) and installed a 15A outlet for you, right? You've also upgraded all the wiring in your temperature controller box to handle the higher current, and installed the correct plug with the thicker ground pin on the cable that plugs into the outlet, right?

Hmm...

 

[reg]

Jeff,
It was my pleasure to pop down and watch your brewrig in action.
I am glad that we were able to sort your issue out and have a chat about the electrics in your house.

Hope to see you soon for a brew day and to sample a few of your beers as the one I tried was great.

Cheers
Reg

 

[paulwolf350]

Glad this turned out OK, I would like to second the call for these types of threads to be banned on Forums.

I have been refraining from posting on this for a while, but after reading some of the latest posts, I am quite concerned.

As a licenced electrician, I have had to disconnect one dead smoking corpse form a backyard welder install. I hope I never have to do it again. More Importantly, I hope it never happens to somebody here who is trying to enjoy a hobby, Get a somebody who knows what they are doing to do your installs, if not for any other reason, he will have some form of public liability insurance.

Although the first electrician, might not have fixed the problem, and may not have given very good advice. He should not have been trying to sort out a backyard install problem in the first place. You would be very lucky to even get most contractors to look at it. Reg, who was probably very concerned for someones saftey, is more than admirable in my book - he is a downright champion

There is a reason electricians are required to be licenced and insured people, and it isnt so we can rip you off. This thread has scared the shit out of me

end of soapbox

Paul

 

[Screwtop]

Glad this turned out OK, I would like to second the call for these types of threads to be banned on Forums.

I have been refraining from posting on this for a while, but after reading some of the latest posts, I am quite concerned.

As a licenced electrician, I have had to disconnect one dead smoking corpse form a backyard welder install. I hope I never have to do it again. More Importantly, I hope it never happens to somebody here who is trying to enjoy a hobby, Get a somebody who knows what they are doing to do your installs, if not for any other reason, he will have some form of public liability insurance.

Although the first electrician, might not have fixed the problem, and may not have given very good advice. He should not have been trying to sort out a backyard install problem in the first place. You would be very lucky to even get most contractors to look at it. Reg, who was probably very concerned for someones saftey, is more than admirable in my book - he is a downright champion

There is a reason electricians are required to be licenced and insured people, and it isnt so we can rip you off. This thread has scared the shit out of me

end of soapbox

Paul

+1

so much expertise on here :huh: it's downright terrifying.

 

[rclemmett]

If people can't get advice on stuff like this then they are definitely going to do something dumb. Why? Because they don't know... They don't know it's dangerous. There are plenty of people on here to give sound advice.

my 2C

 

[paulwolf350]

If people can't get advice on stuff like this then they are definitely going to do something dumb. Why? Because they don't know... They don't know it's dangerous. There are plenty of people on here to give sound advice.

my 2C

Yeah mate, But it is worrying when the good advice is being drowned out with shit, the only advice is "if you are not knowledgable enough to do it yourself, find a licenced tradesman/company to do it for you" lives are not worth the risk.

Not trying to be overly dramatic, might not even be that important, unless its your house on fire!

Paul

 

[rclemmett]

Yeah mate, But it is worrying when the good advice is being drowned out with shit, the only advice is "if you are not knowledgable enough to do it yourself, find a licenced tradesman/company to do it for you" lives are not worth the risk.

Not trying to be overly dramatic, might not even be that important, unless its your house on fire!

Paul

Yes there was some shit advice in there and NO lives are not worth the risk. However, should someone try and tackle one of these projects with no advice then they don't know they are doing something wrong.

I don't think these post should be banned. If they were we would not get to read LC's posts, and no my house is not on fire... Last time I checked.

 

[MartinS]

I don't think these post should be banned. If they were we would not get to read LC's posts, and no my house is not on fire... Last time I checked.

But here's the problem: While LC is extremely knowledgeable, if people go and do work based on his advice, it's only a matter of time before someone messes it up. All the advice he gave in this thread was spot on, but I can think of a dozen different ways that people could implement that advice to the letter, in the wrong way.

If LC isn't looking over your shoulder, how are you going to know what assumptions he's making? There's a reason licenced electiricians don't give advice over the internet - they need to do the work themselves to know it's being done right.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Far as I can tell, the only advice I gave in this thread was to get a proper sparky.

 

[paulwolf350]

....... and no my house is not on fire... Last time I checked.

Didnt mean your house, in particular, mate. Just generalising. Electricity isnt a big deal, until something goes wrong, then in seconds the wiring heats up to about 600 degrees, hellooo fire ......... not to mention electrocution risks in there as well,

been covered here enough i think

it is all sweet,........... dude had problem, one sparky couldnt fix it, dude sought advice, another sparky rectified problem, its all good now

and Lethal Corpse' advice was spot on, it was others i took offense to


Paul

 

[LethalCorpse]

If people can't get advice on stuff like this then they are definitely going to do something dumb. Why? Because they don't know... They don't know it's dangerous. There are plenty of people on here to give sound advice.

my 2C

+1. I'd much rather give as much information as I can and risk someone screwing it up, than not supply that information and guarantee it. But that's all I'm doing - supplying information. I won't accept any responsibility for any loss or damage suffered through the use of that information, correct or otherwise.


I've made it clear before that I'm not a licensed electrician, but as reVox's first sparky demonstrated, that doesn't mean much. I know a lot more about the subject matter than he did, and I'm not going to stop sharing that knowledge because some people think electricity is scary, and thou darest not speak its name. It's not illegal for people outside Queensland to perform wiring of unfixed electrical appliances (anything that's not screwed down or in the walls), and it's not illegal for an engineer to talk about electricity, electrical circuits and their behaviour.


EDIT: I'm still concerned that he's had a second licensed electrician on the premises, and the end result is exactly what we all said you should absolutely not do, and that's just chuck a bigger fuse in. Sorry Reg, but if you've measured it at over 10A, it needs a 15A outlet, not a 12A fuse. It'll be fine, it won't start a fire, and nobody is likely to be sued. That doesn't make it right.

Reg is the person who initially suggested a slow blow or motor start fuse for a more or less purely resistive load. It's not a bloody motor.