March Pump For Whirlpool

[sav]

I am trying to get a good whirlpool in my kettle the problem is I think the march pump hasn't enough herbs,I have tried different heights of the return,also moving the 90deg to the centre more witch is better but not great,I usually do 42lts maybe I am asking to much from the pump.

I have currently got the return half way in the kettle from the top of the kettle.
Any thoughts or if you have a whirlpool going well I would love some feed back.

cheers sava

 

[Kleiny]

i get a really slow whirlpool sav and contacted a pump retailer about a higher flow pump that could handle the hot wort conditions and be food safe and the answer was $1200. :huh:

i have noticed march offer a higher flow head for the the model most of us already have and need to find out a bit more about it.

The texts say up to 3m/s movement is good for the whirlpool stage in the kettle and the march i dont think gets anywhere near that.

Kleiny

 

[wessmith]

Check your inlet hose and fitting diameters - they should all be full flow 1/2"

Wes

i get a really slow whirlpool sav and contacted a pump retailer about a higher flow pump that could handle the hot wort conditions and be food safe and the answer was $1200. :huh:

i have noticed march offer a higher flow head for the the model most of us already have and need to find out a bit more about it.

The texts say up to 3m/s movement is good for the whirlpool stage in the kettle and the march i dont think gets anywhere near that.

Kleiny

 

[Kleiny]

Yep wess i reckon your right about the constriction on the lines 1/2 inch lines but the barb tales on the fittings make the internal diameter much smaller. This would definitely impact on the pump performance. I might look at making more full bore connections in my lines.

:icon_cheers:

 

[sav]

i get a really slow whirlpool sav and contacted a pump retailer about a higher flow pump that could handle the hot wort conditions and be food safe and the answer was $1200. :huh:

i have noticed march offer a higher flow head for the the model most of us already have and need to find out a bit more about it.

The texts say up to 3m/s movement is good for the whirlpool stage in the kettle and the march i dont think gets anywhere near that.

Kleiny

Its moving but not what I like ,I think its going to be worse with wort as I only used water.

 

[Andyd]

The speed is a factor, but from what I understand it's not critical. Basically the whirlpool phenomenon relies on the angular velocity differential (and consequent pressure gradient) from liquid at the center of the kettle and liquid at the edges. There is an additional effect going on from the boundary layers at the edges and bottom of the kettle. The combination of these creates a vortex that results in circulation up through the center and then out to the edges and back down. Solids in the fluid will also circulate. The key to the trub cone forming is that the system has to slow down, so that gravity overtakes the buoyancy forces created by the moving fluids. The solids then gather at the bottom of the kettle in the familiar cone as the system slowly comes to rest.

So: fast isn't necessary. All you need is enough force to drive the liquid around and physics will take care of the rest. If you don't get it going fast enough, you won't get the solids recirculating, but that's not important for the formation of the trub cone.

My march pump and it's configuration is up to the task of driving the liquid sufficiently. It will depend on factors like the amount of hose you're pumping through (which should be minimized) and also the position of the inlet in your kettle (a minimal head difference between the inlet and the pump outlet is desired - mine comes in at the bottom of the kettle, unlike most I've seen which are attached to the chiller. Pumping up and over the kettle edge puts additional load on the pump and reduced the final outlet velocity of the pumping system).

Andy

 

[Pumpy]

I am trying to get a good whirlpool in my kettle the problem is I think the march pump hasn't enough herbs,I have tried different heights of the return,also moving the 90deg to the centre more witch is better but not great,I usually do 42lts maybe I am asking to much from the pump.

I have currently got the return half way in the kettle from the top of the kettle.
Any thoughts or if you have a whirlpool going well I would love some feed back.

cheers sava

I am having exactly the same problem Sav my March pump struggles to even prime it dont seem to like it,

although when I finally get it to prime it sort of works extremly gently, after a start with the spoon ,

but I would not be confident with it priming and hate stuffing around at the end of four hours mashing.

My pump is mounted just under the bottom of the Mashtun as high as I could get so as not to loose head

I have no problem with normal transfer of liquid with the March pump

I am at a bit of a loss.

pumpy

 

[jayse]

I have often wondered if it is even worth the bother, it takes all of ten seconds to stir it around with a paddle so it seems a little bit of a waste of time and effort to bother doing it with the pump.
Of course this does not answer the question if you really want to get it working, my question is, is it worth it?

Maybe if your using a imersion chiller I could possibly see a benefit in pumping it around whilst chilling.

 

[fcmcg]

I am having exactly the same problem Sav my March pump struggles to even prime it dont seem to like it,

although when I finally get it to prime it sort of works extremly gently, after a start with the spoon ,



pumpy

Pumpy...
My march has also started playing funny buggers.....bloody thing would not start right at the end of a double batch, back to back....it had being going fine up untill this point....however...after it had cooled , I was able to start it to run come cleaner thru everything.....
I was thinking at this point that it was okay ,......
It also needed some probing action to get it to start...i mean like a chop stick on the fan action.....the very next brew day , freash outa the box....
Some of the Westgate boys say it shouldn't do this as its a magnetic drive.....but its doing it....bloody thing
Still love it though lol
Cheers
Ferg

 

[fcmcg]

And Sav...
I just use a big mash paddle...bloody easier lol
Cheers
Ferg

 

[Andyd]

Pumpy,

Here's a schematic of my setup - I used to have serious priming issues, but this setup seems to have solved everything.

The bottom ball valve allows fluid to drain through the pump eliminating air from the supply lines. I close that off and open the top one, and perfect flow (so far every time).

I'm careful to make sure that the supply lines never create a "P" trap environment that catch the air and prevent it being eliminated from the system. That was my problem not long ago...



Andy

 

[Screwtop]

Pumpy,

Here's a schematic of my setup - I used to have serious priming issues, but this setup seems to have solved everything.

The bottom ball valve allows fluid to drain through the pump eliminating air from the supply lines. I close that off and open the top one, and perfect flow (so far every time).

I'm careful to make sure that the supply lines never create a "P" trap environment that catch the air and prevent it being eliminated from the system. That was my problem not long ago...

View attachment 40624

Andy

Similar to mine and no probs here, I recirc for around 20 min after flame out while chilling before switching flow to the fermenter.

Screwy

 

[Pumpy]

Pumpy...
My march has also started playing funny buggers.....bloody thing would not start right at the end of a double batch, back to back....it had being going fine up untill this point....however...after it had cooled , I was able to start it to run come cleaner thru everything.....
I was thinking at this point that it was okay ,......
It also needed some probing action to get it to start...i mean like a chop stick on the fan action.....the very next brew day , freash outa the box....
Some of the Westgate boys say it shouldn't do this as its a magnetic drive.....but its doing it....bloody thing
Still love it though lol
Cheers
Ferg

Ferg do you oil your March pump at the two locations with 3 in 1 oil ?

 

[Pumpy]

Pumpy,

Here's a schematic of my setup - I used to have serious priming issues, but this setup seems to have solved everything.

The bottom ball valve allows fluid to drain through the pump eliminating air from the supply lines. I close that off and open the top one, and perfect flow (so far every time).

I'm careful to make sure that the supply lines never create a "P" trap environment that catch the air and prevent it being eliminated from the system. That was my problem not long ago...

View attachment 40624

Andy

Thanks Andy I have printed off the drawing to digest it better and will be back later with questions

Pumpy

 

[Pumpy]

Andy I am struggling with understanding this diagramatic , please bear with me, I still have the head flu so not fuctioning properly .

I take it Your March pump is mounted on the Horizontal with the outlet on the top and the inlet in the bottom .

Are the two ball valves on the outlet ?

Pumpy :unsure:

 

[Andyd]

Andy I am struggling with understanding this diagramatic , please bear with me, I still have the head flu so not fuctioning properly .

I take it Your March pump is mounted on the Horizontal with the outlet on the top and the inlet in the bottom .

Are the two ball valves on the outlet ?

Pumpy :unsure:

Pumpy,

The diagram is an elevation view. The pump is indeed mounted horizontally, with the body projecting down through the page. The head is arranged so that the inlet is on the left (only because it puts the inlet lower than the heat exchange outlet). The two ball valves are on the outlet side, the bottom is a bleed valve to let gravity feed the lines, and the top is to control pump output.

Having the inlet at the top should work, and possibly eliminate the need for the bleed valve, but my current stand won't allow for that setup.

Andy

 

[Pumpy]

Pump,

The diagram is an elevation view. The pump is indeed mounted horizontally, with the body projecting down through the page. The head is arranged so that the inlet is on the left (only because it puts the inlet lower than the heat exchange outlet. There are two ball valves, the bottom bleed valve to let gravity feed the lines, and the top to control pump output.

Having the inlet at the top should work, and possibly eliminate the need for the bleed valve, but my current stand won't allow for that setup.

Andy

Ok Andy so the bottom ball valve is on a tee piece to let the air out?

Pumpy

 

[Andyd]

Ok Andy so the bottom ball valve is on a tee piece to let the air out?

Pumpy

Effectively. The air in the lines should (assuming you have curves in your uptake lines that would trap air) work its way out naturally, and the little air that it in the pump head will be forced out of the bleed valve.

Andy

 

[Pumpy]

Thanks Andy for your help will give it a try

 

[sav]

Thanks guys for the posts,seems some of us are having the same trouble I am ,at the end of the day I am not to worried about it, I will give it a hand with a spoon while I recirculate, mainly I do it to drop temp for my flame out addition and too sterilise my plate chiller and a cone in the middle would be a good help.


cheers sav