Malty Sweet English Ale - How Do I Get That Flavor?

[Bribie G]

Plugs were actually invented for dry hopping British Real Ales as the plug fits nicely through the spile hole of a cask. I mash high-ish, around 67 degrees, to get flavour and body but then usually add up to 7% sucrose to then lighten the body (if that makes sense) without sacrificing alcohol content so the beer is sessionable without being cloying but also tasty.

Whilst I'm a real ale fan, most of my favourite beers in the UK as I grew up weren't real ales, they were the halfway house between cask and the nasty keg beers, the bright beer tank brews of the North and Midlands, such as Newcastle Exhibition, Clubs Federation Special, Vaux Sampson etc. They were stronger beers - by Pom Standards - in the mid 4,s ABV but had that rich maltiness and hoppiness, were unpasteurised, and I know for a fact that they used a proportion of sugar in their makeup to produce something you could sink seven pints of without them becoming too chewy. By contrast some of the stronger cask real ales such as Abbott's Ale or Courage directors had me pretty well satiated after four and I would then even go onto a pint or three of Stella - pitchforks and flaming torches - to refresh the palate.

So I enjoy aiming for the (now largely extinct) flavour of those sessionable brews, another good one being Camerons Strongarm. 4*s, Argon's and the Drs suggestions are great, I'd go 300g sugaz as well B)

 

[Fourstar]

So I enjoy aiming for the (now largely extinct) flavour of those sessionable brews, another good one being Camerons Strongarm.

I'd have to say, the clone i did of this from the real ale almanac was delicious! :icon_drool2:

 

[RobB]

.....and I know for a fact that they used a proportion of sugar in their makeup to produce something you could sink seven pints of without them becoming too chewy....

And just to throw a few more variables into the mix, remember that you can probably buy as many different types of sugar as you can of crystal malts. I've used dark muscovado sugar before which gave a dark toffee and rum note to the beer. Palm sugar is another which I am keen to try.

While we are on the subject of elusive flavours in british beers, there are some bitters which have a lovely pipe tobacco aroma. I would love to get this flavour in my bitters but I'm not sure which hop/malt/yeast contributes this aroma.

 

[Fourstar]

While we are on the subject of elusive flavours in british beers, there are some bitters which have a lovely pipe tobacco aroma. I would love to get this flavour in my bitters but I'm not sure which hop/malt/yeast contributes this aroma.

Fuggles always reminds me of a good cigar/damp forest.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

im planning on making a double batch soon and dry hop one lot with fuggles and the other with EKG @1g/L... or should i make it 2g/L???

hopefully they will both be tasty :beer:

 

[Dazza_devil]

im planning on making a double batch soon and dry hop one lot with fuggles and the other with EKG @1g/L... or should i make it 2g/L???

hopefully they will both be tasty :beer:

I've got an EIPA planned and was gonna dry-hop EKG @ 2g/l. I'm thinking the plugs might be the go after reading fourstar's comments. What would be the equivalent g/l for 1 plug in a 23 litre batch?
1 plug or 2?
I was gonna bitter it with Challenger with a nice big flavour hit of Fuggles @ 10mins.

 

[nala]

If you have'nt already got a copy - Graham Wheelers : Brew your own British Real Ale - is the most authentic reference on British Beers. I speak with 68 years of drinking experience.

 

[goomboogo]

I've got an EIPA planned and was gonna dry-hop EKG @ 2g/l. I'm thinking the plugs might be the go after reading fourstar's comments. What would be the equivalent g/l for 1 plug in a 23 litre batch?
1 plug or 2?
I was gonna bitter it with Challenger with a nice big flavour hit of Fuggles @ 10mins.

2 plugs. They're usually around 13g-14g.

 

[Fourstar]

What would be the equivalent g/l for 1 plug in a 23 litre batch?
1 plug or 2?

2 plugs. They're usually around 13g-14g.

They are 1/2 oz plugs from memory so you're pretty much spot on. 14g~

 

[Bribie G]

If you have'nt already got a copy - Graham Wheelers : Brew your own British Real Ale - is the most authentic reference on British Beers. I speak with 68 years of drinking experience.

New edition coming out fairly soon I believe. The problem with the book is that whilst GW picks the hops quite well, he doesn't go very deeply into malts and yeasts and the recipes tend to be along the lines of "4.3 kg Pale Malt" - yes, ok, so Maris Otter, Golden Promise??? And very little discussion about liquid yeasts despite the fact that there is a huge range of yeasts now available for different styles. He defends the limitations of the recipes on the fact that British brewers have to make substitutions in malts and hops all the time due to shortages / seasonal variations, so it isn't possible to mandate a particular malt. He makes a valid point broadly along the lines that if every British Brewer who claims to use Maris Otter actually used Maris Otter then the UK rural landscape would probably be horizon to horizon with MO fields
Also of course many of the yeasts would be proprietory "in house".

Given those limitations, those Australian brewers who have a bit more background on malts and who don't rely just on Nottingham or SO4 for their yeasts can amplify GW's recipes presented in the book to achieve something fairly authentic.

 

[thesunsettree]

hi guys,

i havent used melanoidan before but i see it in lager recipes mostly. i also see it adds to malt flavour and assists in flavours associated with step mashes. my question is does it have a place in uk bitter recipes??

cheers
matt

 

[Dazza_devil]

They are 1/2 oz plugs from memory so you're pretty much spot on. 14g~

Sweet,
do you bag 'em or just throw them in?
I imagine they would swell up a fair bit.

 

[Bribie G]

Bag em in a bit of voile or muslin. However if you can get one of these, they are great for dry hopping using one plug, and will squeeze into a corny and sit next to pickup tube leaking goodness with every pint. The three inch variety, whatever that is in metric, not the golf ball size, will take a plug.



Probably need to go online as they don't seem to be available locally, but try Asian stores.

 

[bear09]

hi guys,

i havent used melanoidan before but i see it in lager recipes mostly. i also see it adds to malt flavour and assists in flavours associated with step mashes. my question is does it have a place in uk bitter recipes??

cheers
matt

Can someone please respond to this post if they know the answer? I have always wanted to know this.

Cheers!

 

[Bribie G]

I often use melanoidin in more "complex" malt driven higher gravity UK beers but wouldn't use it in a hop-driven Burton style ale, and not at all in a pale hop driven "Summer Ale" style quaffer.

 

[argon]

Can someone please respond to this post if they know the answer? I have always wanted to know this.

Cheers!

Melanoidins are flavours that you get from other malts like Munich and Vienna. Melanoidin malt has been specifically prepared to impart flavours reminiscent of decoction mash schedules where malliard reactions occur at high temps.

Ive used Melanoidin a few times in German lagers and ales with good results. Mainly so I didnt have to perform decoctions. But Ive never used it in English ales. Also, I must caveat that Ive never done a decoction mash and never done a side by side tasting to see if there is a difference, or what my preference would be.

Have a listen to the brewing network podcast on decoctions. Some good discussions on whether there really are any discernable benefits to decoction mashing.

 

[bear09]

Melanoidins are flavours that you get from other malts like Munich and Vienna. Melanoidin malt has been specifically prepared to impart flavours reminiscent of decoction mash schedules where malliard reactions occur at high temps.

Ive used Melanoidin a few times in German lagers and ales with good results. Mainly so I didnt have to perform decoctions. But Ive never used it in English ales. Also, I must caveat that Ive never done a decoction mash and never done a side by side tasting to see if there is a difference, or what my preference would be.

Have a listen to the brewing network podcast on decoctions. Some good discussions on whether there really are any discernable benefits to decoction mashing.

Hmm its interesting because I have never seen a single post where people wave the flag hard for Melaniodin. In theory it sounds really really good but I never see people going on about how good they think it is.

 

[drsmurto]

I trialled melanoidin in my Landlord initially and wasnt overly impressed.

I think you are better of using a good english base malt, the floor malted fawcetts stuff is to die for.

 

[Bribie G]

I used a small touch of Melanoidin in my Yorkshire Red. The next batch is sitting in the bag n lagged right now, and I have replaced the M with Carared, to see what the difference will be. Could just have left it out altogether but looking to maintain colour.

 

[thesunsettree]

cheers for the melanoidan info guys, scratched an itch for me . i will give melanoidan a go one day but i'll be selective with the recipe/style and not just use it for the sake of it.

matt