Low OG ( again I know)

[Danscraftbeer]

Where are you? Its always a help to readers to see your basic location. Water profiles etc.`

 

[Beamer]

Batemans Bay South Coast NSW

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I feel you've just got to increase boil capacities.

(oh the addiction) :lol:

 

[Beamer]

Can't say i wasnt warned about the addiction, didnt think it would hit this hard though!!!

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I'm not sure about it hitting hard other than the odd disappointments here and there. Disappointment hits hard to the heart tho. But then comes the bounce back!
That is the next beer you make. Its that simple. Failures happen to the best of them.

 

[dblunn]

Hi Beamer, give the 5.2 stabliser a miss as there seams to be a lot of negative comments about its use. What is your water report down your way? Can you tell us your Ca, Mg, Cl, Na, SO4 and alkalinity?
Dave

 

[Beamer]

Gday Dave,

Just got off the phone from local council, and this is what the gave me hope it helps.

No sodium tests done.

Chlorine : 2mg/L
Alkalinity : 55.5 mg/L
Hardness : 53
Ph : 7.5
Sulphate : 2.3 mg / L
Aluminium : 0.021 mg/L
Magnesuim : 3.83 mg / L

I'm not sure if this is what was needed but hope it helps.

 

[dblunn]

Hi Beamer, was the top one chlorine or was it chloride, also did they say the hardness was total hardness?
Assuming the chlorine is actually chloride and estimating the calcium level from the hardness (assuming it was total hardness) then my estimate from playing with a spreadsheet is you have:

Ca 15
Mg 3.8
Na ~5 ish
HCO3 65
SO4 2.3

so you want to get the Ca level up a bit (~50) using CaCl or Ca SO4. Just my opinion though. Best dowload a copy of Bru'in water spreadsheet from https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ and play with that to get Ca up a bit and your mash pH around 5.4


Regards, Dave

 

[Beamer]

Hi Dave,
Chlorine and yes that was total hardness, I tried to get as much info as possible.

Cheers

 

[dblunn]

Bugger, chloride level would be useful as well as calcium and sodium.
Dave

 

[Beamer]

For a beginner, should I try bringing my ph levels down to start with and see if that helps?

 

[Beamer]

Hi Beamer, was the top one chlorine or was it chloride, also did they say the hardness was total hardness?
Assuming the chlorine is actually chloride and estimating the calcium level from the hardness (assuming it was total hardness) then my estimate from playing with a spreadsheet is you have:

Ca 15
Mg 3.8
Na ~5 ish
HCO3 65
SO4 2.3

so you want to get the Ca level up a bit (~50) using CaCl or Ca SO4. Just my opinion though. Best dowload a copy of Bru'in water spreadsheet from https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ and play with that to get Ca up a bit and your mash pH around 5.4


Regards, Dave

 

[Beamer]

Hi Beamer, was the top one chlorine or was it chloride, also did they say the hardness was total hardness?
Assuming the chlorine is actually chloride and estimating the calcium level from the hardness (assuming it was total hardness) then my estimate from playing with a spreadsheet is you have:

Ca 15
Mg 3.8
Na ~5 ish
HCO3 65
SO4 2.3

so you want to get the Ca level up a bit (~50) using CaCl or Ca SO4. Just my opinion though. Best dowload a copy of Bru'in water spreadsheet from https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/ and play with that to get Ca up a bit and your mash pH around 5.4


Regards, Dave

thanks for this, sorry I didn't see it before my final post

 

[dblunn]

Probably not, you can be honing a lot other process variables first. Water chemistry is fine tuning, if your water is good like it is on most of the east coast then it will work ok. The biggest thing I have noticed with fixing the Ca level (other than the pH numbers in the mash) is my beer seams to clear much quicker, I'm on northern Shoalhaven water with a native Ca of 22 ppm.
Dave

 

[Rocker1986]

Bear in mind it's the mash pH you want around that 5.4 number, not the starting water pH. Adding grains to the water drops it, with darker grains lowering it more than lighter grains, and it can be dropped further by the use of mineral salts and/or acid malt/lactic acid. The latter is an easy option to drop it without adding shitloads of mineral salts if it is a bit too high.

Admittedly, mash pH isn't something I've done any work on so far, maybe it's already where it needs to be, maybe even if it is a little out, it's not enough to cause any issues with efficiency or the final beer in the glass, so I haven't bothered. I have some acid malt to use in my pilsners though, since I use very low mineral content water in them. Will be interesting to see whether it makes a noticeable difference to the finished beer.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Hi Beamer, give the 5.2 stabliser a miss as there seams to be a lot of negative comments about its use. What is your water report down your way? Can you tell us your Ca, Mg, Cl, Na, SO4 and alkalinity?
Dave

Have you used it or just going off some stuff you have read?
I have used it for about 6 months and have noticed no issues with taste and have seen slight improvements with efficiency. There are also a number of guys in the local HB club with similar findings. I haven't personally heard of anyone having an issue with it here.
It is not something I would rule out using.
That said, you could try throwing 100g of acidulated malt into your next grain bill. It is a bit cheaper option and will let you know if pH is a contributing factor. With your stated pH in the water supply, I predict it would be.

 

[dblunn]

Have you used it or just going off some stuff you have read?
I have used it for about 6 months and have noticed no issues with taste and have seen slight improvements with efficiency. There are also a number of guys in the local HB club with similar findings. I haven't personally heard of anyone having an issue with it here.
It is not something I would rule out using.
That said, you could try throwing 100g of acidulated malt into your next grain bill. It is a bit cheaper option and will let you know if pH is a contributing factor. With your stated pH in the water supply, I predict it would be.

Not used it but information gleaned from respected sources such as Palmer, Zainasheff and others. The biggest issue seems to be the amount of Na added. Might not be an issue if the water is low in minerals anyway as in your case.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Fair enough. Sodium is on the lower side in the local water.May be the reason.
I do think the alkaline water is contributing to your issues beamer.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Don't play with your water pH until you know for sure your mash pH is an issue. That requires reliable and calibrated equipment for testing, otherwise you are guessing and can cause yourself some major frustrations. You are new to this game and I will bet that your perceived issues with lower OG lays elsewhere. As has been suggested, make one change at a time (ie grain crush finer, or rinse your grains in a mini sparge) and see if there is a positive effect on higher OG without a negative effect on taste. This is an important point, because you could strive to achieve the best mash efficiency and end up with a beer that doesn't taste as good, because you have over done something (ie sparging out astringency from the grains).

My 2 cents: 6 or 7 brews in should be aware of water chemistry's effects, but not playing with it until you have all your other processes down pat.

 

[Beamer]

Don't play with your water pH until you know for sure your mash pH is an issue. That requires reliable and calibrated equipment for testing, otherwise you are guessing and can cause yourself some major frustrations. You are new to this game and I will bet that your perceived issues with lower OG lays elsewhere. As has been suggested, make one change at a time (ie grain crush finer, or rinse your grains in a mini sparge) and see if there is a positive effect on higher OG without a negative effect on taste. This is an important point, because you could strive to achieve the best mash efficiency and end up with a beer that doesn't taste as good, because you have over done something (ie sparging out astringency from the grains).

My 2 cents: 6 or 7 brews in should be aware of water chemistry's effects, but not play with it until you have all your other processes down pat.

Thanks Jack,
Spoke with the homebrew shop today and he suggested the mini sparge aswell, will be trying that. Still need to get my boil off perfected aswell.

I am enjoying all this learning and really cant get enough of it, just need the experience to go with it. As you said the taste is the major aspect, I would like to see what the difference is when hitting the numbers.

Thanks again to you all