Live Yeast At The Bottle Store

[Nick JD]

Coopers fires almost instantly. Never had it not.

With some of the imports, you have to wait quite a few days for those few thousand cells to fire ... I reckon it's rare for every single cell to be dead in a non-pasteurised bottle.

Also, if Wyeast/Whitelabs stole it - they must have had a source.

 

[RagingBull]

So:

What do Sierra Nevada use?

Sierra Nevada use a lager strain in their bottle conditioning process. No primary (wy1056/wlp001) there on our shelves at dans.

 

[IainMcLean]

So:

Anyone cultured the Chimays? They're 1214 and alive I hear ... but this list is interested in successful culturing, rather than hearsay.

I've got a Belgian underway right now That's got a Chimmay Blue culture in it. Good starter, bit sluggish during primary...

 

[Nick JD]

I've got a Belgian underway right now That's got a Chimmay Blue culture in it. Good starter, bit sluggish during primary...

Cool.

I often hear talk about Wyeast's strain diverging from the Monk's strain on brewing sites. A lot of people are like, "If you want a true clone, you have to reculture the bottle yeast."

Leads me to wonder how long ago Wyeast pinched 1214, and if they ever do "repinching". Or if yeast strains really do diverge from their orign all that much?

Could it be that many of these American breweries using "their own" ale yeast actually started with a pack of 1056 in 1995 and now have a proprietary strain?

Do Wyeast employees don disguises and do brewery tours deftly swabbing surfaces in the brewery? Or do they trawl the bottles looking for that one cell that made it through the filter? Wouldn't have been difficult for Whitelabs to get hold of Coopers yeast ... but in ten years time, will WLP009 be significanty different to Coopers? Is it already?

 

[Nick JD]

Coopers = WLP009 Aussie Ale
La Chouffe = WY3522 Belgian Ardennes
Chimay = WY1214 Belgian Ale

Anyone done Hoegaarden successfully? Keep 'em coming!

 

[tiprya]

I tried to reculture Saison Dupont (supposedly wy 3724) and didn't get any activity - others may have better luck.

 

[Nick JD]

I tried to reculture Saison Dupont (supposedly wy 3724) and didn't get any activity - others may have better luck.

How big was your culture starter?

I've since learnt with reculturing that it can take freakin ages sometimes, like when there's only a couple of hangers on (okay, probably half a million) in there to breed from. It's exponential, so there's piss all activity at the start when the population is so very low and the starter a decent size. The yeast are all talking to each other saying, "There's HEAPS of food here", and popping off siblings not eating.

Twice I was about to chuck the culture (gone completely clear) when on closer inspection there were a few tiny bubbles on day 4 or even 5. A week and it's a frothing beast.

 

[hazard]

I was able to harvest some brett from a bottle of Orval, I've made 2 nice funky beers (Orval clone, and an old style porter with Brett) from that bottle. Now I've enough Brett to last a lifetime of brewing.

In fact, my dry stout that may be starting to develop some funky flavours as well .....

 

[Nick JD]

I was able to harvest some brett from a bottle of Orval, I've made 2 nice funky beers (Orval clone, and an old style porter with Brett) from that bottle. Now I've enough Brett to last a lifetime of brewing.

In fact, my dry stout that may be starting to develop some funky flavours as well .....

Is only the Brett alive in Orval?

 

[tiprya]

How big was your culture starter?

I've since learnt with reculturing that it can take freakin ages sometimes, like when there's only a couple of hangers on (okay, probably half a million) in there to breed from. It's exponential, so there's piss all activity at the start when the population is so very low and the starter a decent size. The yeast are all talking to each other saying, "There's HEAPS of food here", and popping off siblings not eating.

Twice I was about to chuck the culture (gone completely clear) when on closer inspection there were a few tiny bubbles on day 4 or even 5. A week and it's a frothing beast.

Hmn, I used a 100ml starter and left it for 4 or so days. There looked like there was some solid in there, but nothing milky like yeast - I assumed it was malt congealing or something.

I've got another big bottle of dupont, so maybe i'll try it again next time.

I've also got a bottle of Maudite - does anyone know if Unibroue use their primary strain in bottling? If not I might have to get the current wyeast PC strain for potential future use.

 

[hazard]

I have a bottle of vintage coopers 2011 version i will try and grow. Probably just the normal stuff.


Also have a sample tube of some belgian strong ale yeast but not sure if it is 'alive' or not. Is belgian yeast darker than other forms or does the fact that it is darker indicate some issues with it?

Cheers,

D80

Rather than Coopers Vintage Ale (what, about 7.5% ??) I would try to culture from Cooper Pale (4.5%), or maybe even better, Cooper's Mild (3.8%) - the lower alcohol will stress the yeast less in the weaker beers. last time I used cultured up some Coopers yeast, i went into the cold room at Dans and looked at the bottling date stamped on the carton and bought a six pack from the carton with the latest bottling date - from memory it might have been 2 months old, and had no trouble getting culturing up the yeast. $15 for a six pack of yeast, about same price as a Wyeast smack pack, and 2 litres of free beer - Bargain!!

 

[hazard]

Is only the Brett alive in Orval?

Good question, which i can't answer. When I did my clone I fermented the batch fully with WY3944 before I added the Orval. OK 3944 is Hoegaarden, not quite correct for an Orval clone but it is what i had to hand, and as it is Belgian it may (hopefully) give a similar flavour profile. If there was some live sacharomyces in the Orval bottle with the yeast, it may have been able to eat the malt in the yeast starter, but there wouldn't be anything for it to eat when it was added to the fermenter. Anyway, it wouldn't so any harm in the Orval cone (it tastes OK to me) but not sure what it will do for the flavour profile of the porter, not much I would expect.

 

[emnpaul]

I start pretty small when culturing from a bottle, around 100-150ml. Once that fires, depends on a few things so can't state a specific lag time, then step up to 500ml. Works most times.

I emailed Moa about 9 months ago regarding their yeast. Their brewer replied that the yeast in the bottle is a mixture of primary fermentation strain and a lager yeast used for bottle conditioning. Never the less I cultured it and used it for a dry apple cider that turned out pretty decent. I can't say that it turned out any better than one made with a dedicated cider yeast as I didn't do a side by side, but it was still quite drinkable.

 

[prestonpaul]

they have started using a lager yeast to condition the dark ale, so now you can't harvest the original yeast: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=835966

Just as well I have 4 slants in the fridge from the dark ale I cultured a couple of years ago

 

[Liam_snorkel]

haha awesome.

has anyone cultured Weihenstephan successfully?

I have some pints in the fridge & wondering if it will be worth the effort.

 

[tiprya]

haha awesome.

has anyone cultured Weihenstephan successfully?

I have some pints in the fridge & wondering if it will be worth the effort.

If you're using malt extract for starters - probably not. For the $4 worth of extract compared to a cost of a packet of W34/70 means I wouldn't bother.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

oh so do they filter the hefe yeast and condition with 34/70?
bummer.

 

[Nick JD]

oh so do they filter the hefe yeast and condition with 34/70?
bummer.

I heard that the only Hefeweizen that's got a live primary yeast in the bottle is Schneider Weisse (also happens to be the tastiest) but it's not at Dans, so doesn't make this list.

Also, because live yeast in a hefe has a bad habit of eating all the flavour compounds, they filter it out, add a lager yeast and then nuke it with heat. So while many hefes porbably have 34/70 ... it dead.

I make my starters from sieved hotbreak wort - so they cost 3/5ths of FA and if they fire, that beer was FREE! 34/70 dry is almost the same price as WY2124. It'd be nice to find a live one - I heard Schofferhoffer has live lager yeast in it but that's hearsay, and it'd be nice to get a list of tried and true culturables.

 

[Weizguy]

I heard that the only Hefeweizen that's got a live primary yeast in the bottle is Schneider Weisse (also happens to be the tastiest) but it's not at Dans, so doesn't make this list.

Also, because live yeast in a hefe has a bad habit of eating all the flavour compounds, they filter it out, add a lager yeast and then nuke it with heat. So while many hefes porbably have 34/70 ... it dead.

I make my starters from sieved hotbreak wort - so they cost 3/5ths of FA and if they fire, that beer was FREE! 34/70 dry is almost the same price as WY2124. It'd be nice to find a live one - I heard Schofferhoffer has live lager yeast in it but that's hearsay, and it'd be nice to get a list of tried and true culturables.

I have cultured yeast from a bottle of Schofferhoffer. That was a number of years ago and I never made any beer with it, so it's still in my beer/ yeast culture fridge.
I have a few cultures saved from over the years, including an ale yeast from a King and Barnes Festive Ale (which Ross got a sample of, years back), and Unibroue La Gaillarde (which I used for a Belgian Pale, and scored a second in the NSW State comp that year). Also cultured a bottle of Matilda Bay real ale. I think I brewed a Winter Strong Ale with it. Was delicious and malty.
Edit : Browser issues - multiple posts - hopefully good now

 

[Goldenchild]

Moon dog- billy ray citrus. Stepped up 100ml/500ml/1L.
Aparrently a Bavarian wheat yeast and lacto culture.
Brewed a double batch 3.5% berlinner and split with 3190.
Found the moon dog yeast to be much funkier then the 3190. Possibly Bretty.

Moon dog-freaks and geeks. Stepped up 100/500/1L/2L.
Brewed a double batch 8ish% dark rye farmhouse ale. Split with 3726.
Both in ferment still with moon dog yeast showing a little more brett character at this stage. But other then that very similar so possibly the same strain.